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Dealing with Plastic Binding

Jun 23, 2014
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Cape Cod MA
Tearing my hair out over on my Hossenfeffer II build on headstock binding, but I don't recall much discussion of body and headstock binding on any recent thread, so I thought I'd start a new one. If any of the Pros would care to toss the amateur contingent a few tips, much appreciated:

Material:
Seems to come down to real celluloid (rare and expensive to ship, because it's extremely flammable), PVC, or ABS. It's not always specified as either PVC or ABS, just "plastic". I've bought all three, the only common denominator I've found is that all three seem to be dissolvable in acetone.

Glue:
I've tried the Big Three, CA Glue, Stewmac Binding Cement, and Acetone. Of the three, I found acetone the most user-friendly. It can be wicked into gaps, evaporates quickly, and leaves no residue. Any loose spots can be re-glued in place by wicking in more acetone, it's so thin that the joint draws it in by capillary action. The only downside I found is that it will dissolve the glue on some tapes used to hold the binding. It also has the advantage of being dissolved in acetone into a "paste" that can be troweled into gaps or miters for a "welded" joint. I found CA glue a mess, and it can discolor the wood or prevent later finishes from absorbing evenly. The Stewmac glue works fine, but does leave some residue, I didn't see any big advantage over acetone.

Tools:
I'm generally sticker-shocked by Stewmac's "creative" pricing and outrageous "shipping and handling" charges, but this tool is worth it IMO, also offered by LMI. The shear-cut blades and precision machined bearings cut very clean, precise "ledges". There may be another rabbeting bit sets out there that would work, if so, by all means post a link, but these are optimized for common binding thickness. In practice, I've only needed the bearings for .040, .060, and .070". The Stewmac .060" binding actually mikes to around .065, and tends to expand a little when glued, so the .070" bit has come in handy.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
http://www.lmii.com/products/tools-services/rout/shape/drill/binding-cutter-bearings

Here's and example of a single-ply ledge cut in a headstock for .060" binding with the Stewmac cutters:
6mxqHn4.jpg


And here's a double ledge for two-ply binding, also with Stemac cutters:
c6gtuwo.jpg


With either a "Binding Machine" that rides around the body contour on a vertical rail system, or one of the many ingenious home-built rigs serving the same purpose, it's possible to bind body contours, albeit only to a shallow depth, the Aerodyne Jazz a prime example:


This one is a pretty good tutorial on headstock binding, using a purpose-built jig to pre-bend multi-ply laminates into the required shape prior to gluing. One advantage of multi-ply binding is that each of the thinner layers will take a bend that thicker material will not.


This video shows an alternate method for bending plastic binding without a heat gun, using only acetone fumes. A spectacular failure in this case, as he reduces the binding to a sticky mush, but I wonder if a shorter exposure would yield better results:


Scraping and Finishing:
Gibson, Rickenbacker, and other old-school builders still have teams of highly-skilled people who scrape binding by hand with razor blades or a piece of sharpened spring-steel. An admirable skill, no doubt, but with a big learning curve! This guy makes it look easy, it isn't.


I tried this myself, and quickly realized I didn't have the time or patience to get good at it, and found I could get damn nearly as good results using a modern plastic film masking tape, this stuff is absolutely amazing:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Indigo-PN...sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=3m+finsline+indigo+1/8"

Here's an example of white binding and black paint, about as unforgiving as it gets, and done with the Indigo tape. Look Ma, no scraping! The tiny hair-fine bleed-through you see in the photo came off with a razor in about 5 seconds.
SVzQ21p.jpg


Body contours, even the horns, are usually a gentle enough radius that you can bend binding around them without much fuss, headstocks are a different story, which may have something to do with relative rarity of bound headstocks! Ric headstocks are notoriously pointy, but not alone in that. here's a bending jig for headstock binding. The "positive" headstock template has a binding ledge of the appropriate size cut into it, the "negative" is cut for a reasonably tight fit, allowing the binding strips to be heated and pre-bent, mitered, etc. and allowed to take a "set" in the jig. It might work better to have an exaggerated over-bend on some tight radius, as the plastic tends to spring back some out of the jig.

Using a heat gun to bend plastic binding is the tried and true method, but the line between "warm enough to bend" and "toast" is vanishingly small. Looking for suggestions and Pro tips on bending very tight radii. One might be to laminate two or three thinner strips of the same in a jig with acetone, per the video above, which would theoretically allow them to collectively bend to a finer radius. Another would be bending around a heated piece of pipe of appropriate diameter, similar to the bending irons used for wood binding and purfling.
LRxuEHK.jpg
 
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@chinjazz
Zombie Thread! Just to close the loop on this, here's the headstock in question in it's nearly finished state. The "form" I built for pre-bending tight radius corners worked pretty well in conjunction with a simple wood dowel slightly smaller than the tightest radius. I tacked one end of the binding to the dowel and bent it around with a heat gun, "Worked a Treat", as our UK bretheren would say. I haven't tried wood binding yet, that must get exciting on tight radius. If anybody has some tips on that, please add-on.
pAVhTZa.jpg
 
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Hey @Gilmourisgod,

I decided to brave it and get one of the SM binding router bits, and also getting some of their black 0.60 plastic binding to go on another neck.

For this neck I’m going for walnut binding so I can cut the binding strips thickness to whatever (a bit oversized) and file/sand/scrape to size after glued.

I’m wondering if an 0.60 bearing bit will work with this Black 0.60 binding on the other neck, or should I also get an 0.70 bearing?

Saw you mentioned swelling and on the SM site they weren’t hip the to Acetone method.

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Thanks!
 
I've been getting plastic binding through Allparts, it Mike's to around .063", and didn't seem to swell at all putting it on the HF II, so I just used the .060 bearing and scraped it flush. I haven't seen any binding that's under thickness, just over. I had to use the .070 bearing on the HF I, but I think that was accumulated slop from two layers of binding and a double binding ledge.
 
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I've been getting plastic binding through Allparts, it Mike's to around .063", and didn't seem to swell at all putting it on the HF II, so I just used the .060 bearing and scraped it flush. I haven't seen any binding that's under thickness, just over. I had to use the .070 bearing on the HF I, but I think that was accumulated slop from two layers of binding and a double binding ledge.

Very good, thanks! Very helpful :)
 
That transition from neck to headstock is always funky. You always have to deal with some kind of plane change from fingerboard to headstock, either dropping to parallel on a Fender style, or transitioning to headstock angle. Sometimes the best solution is using the nut as a break, with alternate binding heights either side. I tried .040” on the HF I, too thin and unforgiving, I accidentally scraped it too thin, had to route it off and try again. .060” the best compromise, if you scrape one section a little thin, it’s not really noticeable. The .070” stuff is really hard to bend around tight radius without getting “stress” marks in it.
 
Thanks! :) Well, I got everything in place EVENTUALLY and it doesn't look horrible from a reasonable distance. I made several mistakes though. As I wanted to have the binding height parallel to the edges of the fingerboard, I should have bought taller binding. I realised I didn't have any and was impatient so I just went with the shorter, resulting in a rather thin stripe along the edge near the heel. Thickness is 1,5 mm by the way.

Before attaching it I flattened the whole strip with a heat gun, which went fine but somehow in some places it got a bit wonky. Then, I thought it would be a good idea just to wing it and started at one side near the nut. I could just not get it to stick well, and when it eventually stuck (when I tried to attach a larger area at once) it looked like crap. I tried to gently remove it and pulled a lot of wood fibers along with it. Superglue all over the place, pieces of skin glued to various parts of the neck and binding. Luckily I had a spare strip. After restoration of the channel, same approach. Gluing inch by inch, slightly heating the areas to bend. Overheated near the heel resulting in a wobbly bit, as you can see in the picture, but I could scrape that flush easily. Then scraped the sides, it was impossible to get an even line and I scraped away way more than I should have, noticed it too late. Now with frets in place it looks OK but there is some room for improvement!

Anyways, I think I did a nice job on the block inlays for a first try :cool::cool:
 

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Thanks! :) Well, I got everything in place EVENTUALLY and it doesn't look horrible from a reasonable distance. I made several mistakes though. As I wanted to have the binding height parallel to the edges of the fingerboard, I should have bought taller binding. I realised I didn't have any and was impatient so I just went with the shorter, resulting in a rather thin stripe along the edge near the heel. Thickness is 1,5 mm by the way.

Before attaching it I flattened the whole strip with a heat gun, which went fine but somehow in some places it got a bit wonky. Then, I thought it would be a good idea just to wing it and started at one side near the nut. I could just not get it to stick well, and when it eventually stuck (when I tried to attach a larger area at once) it looked like crap. I tried to gently remove it and pulled a lot of wood fibers along with it. Superglue all over the place, pieces of skin glued to various parts of the neck and binding. Luckily I had a spare strip. After restoration of the channel, same approach. Gluing inch by inch, slightly heating the areas to bend. Overheated near the heel resulting in a wobbly bit, as you can see in the picture, but I could scrape that flush easily. Then scraped the sides, it was impossible to get an even line and I scraped away way more than I should have, noticed it too late. Now with frets in place it looks OK but there is some room for improvement!

Anyways, I think I did a nice job on the block inlays for a first try :cool::cool:

Thanks for sharing. I certainly seems like one of those true learning experiences :woot:..Not fun.
I've been taking my, as they say "sweet" time and making jigs, etc. in planning my first. Can you say slowwwwwwwww progress??

I do like how your block inlays came out! This may slow me down more because I've been interested in trying that as well.
 
Blocks look great @Frederiek! Your experience with CA glue sounds familiar, I tried it, what a mess. I really haven't found much I like using it for, nasty fumes, glued skin, ugghh, forget it! Acetone is just stupid easy, I'll never use anything else for plastic binding. The Stewmac Binding Glue is the same old stuff I used on model airplanes as a kid, but twice as expensive, of course. Can you get Acetone in the Netherlands? Here's how the binding transition ended up looking on my current HF II build, it just keeps going at the 5 degree headstock angle until it meets the strip of exposed bubinga under the neck binding.

ABsSlHo.jpg
 
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This is a great thread, I love binding. But I've found it hard to get consistent results. As an amateur, here are my thoughts...

I started off using acetone to glue plastic binding, but I'm moving away from it. I've had a couple of failures when it's come away from the sides, and also I've never worked out how to use it while using gloves - either the gloves melt or get stuck to the tape. I also found that sometimes the acetone pick up colour from darker woods and discolour lighter wood.

I tried CA glue and hated it for the same reasons that @Frederiek described. I found the open time just wasn't long enough to be able to glue in sections.

Also, my latest is with spalted maple which means the acetone wicks away almost immediately into the wood, and wasn't providing any bonding strength on the samples I did. I've therefore used UHU Hart glue and I have to say compared to aceone it's great. It has a long open time, you can position the binding in place, and tape it up before moving onto the next section. You can tape up the sides to catch the drips and as far as I can tell it has glued really really firmly. Of course this one isn't finished yet, so I may be eating my words!

IMG-20190122-131827.jpg


The other techniques I've found useful with binding:
- Bend with a hairdryer (not heat gun) and tape the binding in place on the body/neck before trying to glue it. Leave it over night before moving on to glue.
- If the binding doesn't easily push into place then don't think it will be alright when you come to glue. Get it properly bent bent before trying to glue.
- Get more tape than you ever think you will need cut and ready to go (I now cut 80 per body).
- Some binding bends A LOT easier than others. I've not quite sure I've quite worked out what bends easily, but celluloid does, and I think it's ABS that is a lot more difficult

That's my (very limited!) experience.