• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Definition of "singing" when there is talk about training your ear?

R

russosborne

Mar 27, 2013
314
319
Glendale, Arizona 85302
#1
This may not be the best way of asking, I am pretty confused.

I keep reading that I (or whoever is asking about ear training) sing the song.
I hate to admit this but I am not sure I am understanding what is meant.
To me, "singing" is supposed to be melodic and pleasing. I do not have a voice for what I define as singing. In fact I couldn't carry a 1 pound song in a 10 pound bucket. The only difference between me and the worst of the people you see auditioning on American Idle who can't sing is that I know I can't.

Are we talking about doing "la la la" type things here? Not singing the lyrics, but trying to sing the melody? If so, just what should I be trying to do? 30 years ago I took a college intro to music theory class where we had to count intervals by going la, la, la, etc. I didn't do great on that part. And this was using a piano, which I can hear much clearer.

Or are we really talking about singing the lyrics?

Or am I so confused I should stay with listening to music instead of trying to play?

This seems to me to be like one of those things that it is just assumed that you know what is being talked about without there being any explanation needed. Well, I need an explanation. :help:

I can hear when there is a change. I cannot tell if it goes higher or lower though, especially on bass. It just sounds different, not directional. My ears are damaged, I know that for sure. I wasn't born tone deaf, but I think I need a tone amplifier at this stage of life. :facepalm:

Again, as I have stated in another thread, this is just a hobby and if I am stuck with using chord charts, tabs, sheet music, so be it. But I am trying to give this one last real shot. And maybe this question can help someone else understand as well.

Bass really might not be the best instrument for ME to be playing, but it is the one I want to. My fingers are too fat to play guitar anymore. :roflmao:

Thanks,
Russ
 
#2
I don't know what posts you are reading, but when I talk about singing in relation to ear training, I'm talking about singing pitches; notes, intervals, triads, chords. If you are hearing it accurately and clearly, you should be able to match the pitch, in the register it's being played, with your voice. Sure, it may not be the prettiest sound, but if you can't match pitch and register accurately and in tune, you're not really hearing the note.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brad Johnson, InhumanResource, DanAleks and 4 others
#3
Thanks, Ed.

What I am reading always seems to come down to "if you can sing it you can play it", but the singing part to me at least is never clear or explained. What you said above does clear that up for me.
BTW, I wasn't referring to anything you have posted, I don't think you have been involved in any of the posts I was talking about.

You wrote above "Sure, it may not be the prettiest sound, but if you can't match pitch and register accurately and in tune, you're not really hearing the note." sounds like my problem.

Russ
 
#5
russosborne said:
...What I am reading always seems to come down to "if you can sing it you can play it", but the singing part to me at least is never clear or explained...
Click to expand...

I think the idea is that one should be able to sing a melodic line and then play the same line on your bass, perhaps an octave or two lower. This is not an act of performance, but rather shows that you can hear an idea and then express it on the spot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassmeknik and Matthew_84
#6
"If you can't sing it, you can't play it."

Instrumentalists have finely developed ears, but rarely finely developed voices. That's OK.
The easiest way to prove you heard something correctly to another musician is to sing it back.
If you can't accurately reproduce the correct pitches and intervals, no one will believe you can hear them.
You don't need a quality singing voice to match a pitch. Or two. Or 40.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jim Carr
#7
My recommendation is to practice singing any opportunity you get: happy birthday to your friends/family, hymns at church, the national anthem before a ball game, drive around singing along with the radio, maybe join a community chorus or musical. If you are in a band then experiment with singing harmony, or maybe even lead vocals on one song (like the Beatles let Ringo). Your singing will improve the more you practice, and this will only help your bass playing. Don't worry if you don't have a traditionally "beautiful" voice! Many of the most beloved singers have unusual voices (Bob Dylan, Neil Young. Billie Holiday, Willie Nelson, etc.).
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassmeknik, Thespis and bfields
#9
I'm no expert but it seems to me that your problem is the inability to hear pitch "in your mind's ear" or in other words what is called "tone deafness." I used to think this did not really exist and that anyone could learn to hear and reproduce pitches, until I read an article about how some people are unable to visualize anything in their mind. It is called "mind blindness." Such people have no "mind's eye." This is apparently related to inherent problems with brain function. There may be such a thing with respect to hearing pitches in your mind' i.e. if you can't hear a pitch "in your mind" you cannot reproduce it with your voice.

Sorry I have no remedy or method to suggest. Wish you well with your efforts, though.
 
#10
Yeah, I usually sing along to the melodies with "la", or I may use do, rei, m, etc. if I'm doing interval ear training.

Mushroo said:
My recommendation is to practice singing any opportunity you get: happy birthday to your friends/family, hymns at church, the national anthem before a ball game, drive around singing along with the radio, maybe join a community chorus or musical. If you are in a band then experiment with singing harmony, or maybe even lead vocals on one song (like the Beatles let Ringo). Your singing will improve the more you practice, and this will only help your bass playing. Don't worry if you don't have a traditionally "beautiful" voice! Many of the most beloved singers have unusual voices (Bob Dylan, Neil Young. Billie Holiday, Willie Nelson, etc.).
Click to expand...
This is a great idea. I now sing along to almost every song as I drive... Yeah, I'm one of those people. I'll even sing along to the melody if there aren't any vocals.

But, I hate "Happy Birthday" my vocal range is a low bass one and that octave G is about 5 steps above the top of my range... That's a song I always lip-synch. It gets ugly when everyone else is lyp-synching it too though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thespis and Mushroo
#12
It would be a good musical exercise to transpose "Happy Birthday" into a key that works for your voice. I have heard little kids with zero musical training sing "Happy Birthday" with confidence and enthusiasm, so I'm sure you can do it too (in a better key, or using your falsetto/head voice). Whatever you do, don't give up! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassmeknik and Matthew_84
#13
russosborne said:
The only difference between me and the worst of the people you see auditioning on American Idle who can't sing is that I know I can't.
Click to expand...
that made me chuckle early this morn

Thespis said:
I don't know why, but it seems that whoever starts the song always chooses the worst key possible
Click to expand...
and it gets worse for those of us with perfect pitch/hearing in colours. some songs need to be in certain keys.
 
#14
When people say "If you can sing it, you can play it," that means you can "hear" it in your head. The melody (or other part, bass for example) is "in" your mind, fully integrated, to the point that you can almost "feel" it WITHOUT having to think (much) about it.

Seriously, sing to yourself something gawdawful easy, like Twinkle Twinkle Litte Star, then pick out those notes on your bass and play it until it's even, smooth, etc.

Then rinse and repeat hundreds of times, with more complex music. (This DOES mean, on bass, learning to "hear" and "sing" boring "C-G-C-G-C-G..." bass lines in your head, if you can't already.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassmeknik
#15
Building on Interp's post above- for some people, music better interpreted other ways. At it's purest form, music is mathematics. All those intervals and triads, etc., can be broken down into numbers. Other people can relate music as color. Perhaps you just find a non-conventional way that clicks for your brain. That proverbial a-ha moment. That your even interested in music, tells me that the structure is probably there. It could be you just need a lot more practice and possibly a teacher to guide you.
 
#16
russosborne said:
Are we talking about doing "la la la" type things here? Not singing the lyrics, but trying to sing the melody? If so, just what should I be trying to do? 30 years ago I took a college intro to music theory class where we had to count intervals by going la, la, la, etc.
Click to expand...

It's called solfege when you sing using the pitch names (do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti, do, etc.) but you needn't sing the pitch names if you're just trying to memorize music. Being able to hit the pitches reasonably well is all that is required (i.e. you can tell it's a major 7 and not a minor 7!) . When musicians sing parts to me, they usually just go "bah da dah da dah da dah"

When I had a long commute, I would bring a pitch pipe in the car and sing scales and arpeggios to while away the time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bassmeknik and jfh2112
#18
I often sing the bass part to learn it. Sometimes it is hard to hear the bass part clearly, and that doesn't help. t still hunt and peck a lot for the actual notes, I can't just play what I sing first time, takes me a while, sometimes twice, sometimes twenty times to work it out. Some theory helps me out, but lots of 'experimenting'. I'm probably getting better, for example today for fun the melody to Oh Susannah, probably two or three times to get it down, then no problem, however I'm still thinking of the frets still after learning it, and by ear, if that makes sense, kind of a mix. I saw a video of Janek Gwizalda figuring some melody or solo out, looked pretty darn familiar.
 
#19
Once you learn songs like that, you can actually memorise lots of songs, I learned maybe 100 or 150 songs. I could probably never remember them if just looking at music, and now I may have to play it twice through to get a tune back, 80, 90's pop to reggae. I knew the tunes really well before playing them on the bass that probably helped some.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back