developing good legato technique

[Wannabebass]

Hello, new player here, approximately 1 year in. Recently started recording myself as a learning tool - it certainly highlight one's shortcomings doesn't it! .
Anyway the biggest thing revealed is that my notes almost always cut off before the next note starts - not in a good way.
Most of the instruction I've found on legato technique focuses on using hammer-ins and pull-offs, but I believe I need something more basic than that - just better technique for smoother playing.
Other than "hold the first note until the next note begins" does anyone have any tips or "cues" to guide me towards smoother more fluid playing?
Many thanks for any ideas.

 

[SteveCS]

You need to work on synchronisation between the left and right hands. Listen closely to the breath between notes and reduce it by getting the left hand down at the precise same instant that you pluck. Every time one or the other is early or late you are stealing time from the notes.
And keep hamners and pulls for ornaments and tricks.

 

[jallenbass]

Make sure you don't "set" your right-hand fingers on the string before plucking it. That will stop the note.

 

[Lobster11]

I remember an exercise posted around here some time ago that helped me: Start by playing the E on the 9th fret of the G string with your index finger. Then, without moving the index finger, play the next note (F) with your middle finger; then play the F# with your ring finger without moving the first two fingers, and finally the G with your pinky without moving the other three. (Do all this while plucking with your right hand -- no hammer-ons or pull-offs.) Then, start the same pattern on the 9th fret of the D string and repeat, and so on for the other two strings. Obviously this only directly involves ascending, chromatic patterns, but I found it helped give me the feel of playing legato in a way that I was able to generalize when playing other patterns.

 

[Wannabebass]

Thanks everyone for your insights. The obvious mechanics are just don't mute the ringing note until you pluck the next note...easier said than done. Where I really notice it is on some of the Audacity waveforms of my quick and dirty recordings. Does anyone use that as a tool to "quantify" how much dead air is between the notes. Sometimes after listening and playing for quite a while its hard to hear if I've made any improvement, but visually I may see a waveform that doesn't seem to have the big breaks between notes.
One minor improvement I've been able to make is being aware of how quickly my thumb moves (I use a floating or moveable anchor I believe) to mute the lower string as I'm moving up from say the E to the A string. Pluck A before muting E.

 

[AGCurry]

You need to work on synchronisation between the left and right hands. Listen closely to the breath between notes and reduce it by getting the left hand down at the precise same instant that you pluck. Every time one or the other is early or late you are stealing time from the notes.
And keep hamners and pulls for ornaments and tricks.

Great advice for notes on the same string. For string crossings, however, the fretting finger can and should be in place slightly before the note is sounded. This is something I struggle with on the double bass.

 

[AGCurry]

Thanks everyone for your insights. The obvious mechanics are just don't mute the ringing note until you pluck the next note...easier said than done. Where I really notice it is on some of the Audacity waveforms of my quick and dirty recordings. ...
One minor improvement I've been able to make is being aware of how quickly my thumb moves (I use a floating or moveable anchor I believe) to mute the lower string as I'm moving up from say the E to the A string. Pluck A before muting E.

There are three cases:
1. Notes on the same string;
2. First note on lower string, second note on higher string;
3. First note on higher string, second note on lower string.

Case 1: There is no need to mute at all. When descending, the second note may be fretted early if there is no shift.
Case 2: Muting of the first note is done naturally by the plucking finger.
Case 3: Raising the fretting finger off the first note mutes it. The second note may be fretted early. Caveat: If the first note is on a harmonic (IV, V, or VIII), you may need to mute it with the right hand.

 

[SteveCS]

For string crossings, however, the fretting finger can and should be in place slightly before the note is sounded.

I don't buy that at all. I was shown that way when I first started playing guitar/bass, but when I started playing the Stick I quickly realised that such an approach was not possible. Because its a one-handed technique it is more akin to the piano or tabla - notes sound when the string is stopped, in the same way as they do when striking a drum or pressing a key.

It was also in all of the bass method books that you keep 'trailing' fingers down. i.e. if pinky is stopping, then index, middle and ring should be down in support, which I also don'y buy. The extra physical support needed for the double-bass isn't necessary with the electric bass and it simply doesn't work with the Stick - all you get is dead notes or duff dynamics. With the Stick method, fingers are lifted clear at the ends of notes and they stay 'off' until further notice. Soon afterwards (c.1989) I started to play the electric bass in a similar way - stopping and plucking in a single integrated motion, and lifting (just a bit) fingers that were not playing. It is the same basic approach whether ascending, descending, crossing or playing the same string. Your three cases become one unified case:

There are three cases:
1. Notes on the same string;
2. First note on lower string, second note on higher string;
3. First note on higher string, second note on lower string.

Case 1: There is no need to mute at all. When descending, the second note may be fretted early if there is no shift.
Case 2: Muting of the first note is done naturally by the plucking finger.
Case 3: Raising the fretting finger off the first note mutes it. The second note may be fretted early. Caveat: If the first note is on a harmonic (IV, V, or VIII), you may need to mute it with the right hand.

I find it far more fluent and it represents a huge rationalisation of required gestures and an overall simplification of method with no drawbacks. The only time I have more than one finger down is if more than one note is being played on more than one string. As a ftreless player I also find it brings improvements in tone and better control over intonation and vibrato.

YMMV

 

[AGCurry]

... when I started playing the Stick ...

Steve, excuse my ignorance. What's "the Stick?"

 

[SteveCS]

Steve, excuse my ignorance. What's "the Stick?"

Chapman Stick
Stick Enterprises - Home of the Chapman Stick

 

[AGCurry]

Well, I've never played a Stick, but ...
One thing I notice (and judge) is bassists who ruin a 4/4 swing by cutting off notes too early. To the OP: Try practicing swing lines slowly - simple 1-3-5-3 arpeggios are fine - with a conscious effort to give each note its due.

 

[SteveCS]

Well, I've never played a Stick, but ...
One thing I notice (and judge) is bassists who ruin a 4/4 swing by cutting off notes too early. To the OP: Try practicing swing lines slowly - simple 1-3-5-3 arpeggios are fine - with a conscious effort to give each note its due.

With practice it is possible to all but eliminate the breath between notes.

 

[Wannabebass]

Thank you all for your suggestions-I will start implementing and report back.
Cheers

 

[byacey]

It was also in all of the bass method books that you keep 'trailing' fingers down. i.e. if pinky is stopping, then index, middle and ring should be down in support, which I also don'y buy.

It only makes sense to leave them in place, if you're going to descend back through the same notes. This is economy of motion. In violin technique, which applies the same on pretty much any string instrument, economy of motion is important. You can always tell someone when someone wasn't properly trained in pedagogy, because they appear much busier than what they need to be, with fingers flailing all about. This equates to wasted energy and time.

Great musicians can execute complicated passages while looking like they are barely moving their fingers.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Is it possible to record a short video of yourself playing so we can see your technique? That might help identify some specific areas to work on.

In general, the key to mastering any technique is to practice it slower. Hammer-ons and pull-offs require very clean technique. I used to sit for hours on the sofa, watching TV and practicing one pluck at a time: hammer on, pluck, pull off, pluck, slide up, pluck, slide down, etc. Over and over, very slow, focused on making everything clean and even, so my sound was consistent and clear regardless of what technique I was using.

 

[SteveCS]

...
You can always tell someone when someone wasn't properly trained in pedagogy, because they appear much busier than what they need to be, with fingers flailing all about.
...

In terms of physical demand, the electric bass is less demanding then the #cello, let alone the double bass. In that sense there are elements in the formal double-bass methods that are sub-optimal in the context of electric bass.
And there is a distinct difference between flailing about out of control and being deliberately withdrawn in a controlled manner.

 

[smeet]

I think economy of motion is a good thing, however it is overemphasized these days.
Violinists don’t look at their fingers while playing, so although they try to play efficiently, they don’t try to move the fingers as little as possible. Some virtuosos move quite a lot.

On BG, check out this educated guy’s crazy fingers at around 20 seconds: