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DI box between amp and cab

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by andykeating, Jul 20, 2018.


  1. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    Hi all

    I recently posted a thread about alternatives to using the Balanced Out from my SVT for live sound. My preference is to use a DI box between my amp and my cabinet. I'm 95% on settled on getting a Countryman 85. I've debated getting a JDX-48, but think that it might be better going for a box without a speaker simulation, plus it doesn't give me the option of using it as an instrument DI if necessary. I'd also debated getting an RNDI but the only power source is phantom, and even though its very unlikely, I don't want to turn up to a show and the desk not be capable of providing phantom power. Anyhow, I digress, I just have few questions before I buy a box...

    1) Am I right in saying that speaker cables need to be used from the amp to DI box, then from the box to cab?

    2) For people who have used the Countryman in this scenario, will I need to change my EQ settings much? ie, will I need to take some treble out, because the box doesn't have roll-off like speakers do?

    3) Finally, can anyone steer me away from the Countryman at the last minute and give me some more food for thought on DI boxes?

    Thanks in advance :D
     
  2. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    the Cali Intergalctic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon slow downer software- full 4 hour demo
    @JimmyM knows a lot about this topic.
     
    Wisebass and andykeating like this.
  3. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    He does indeed. Come on @JimmyM where are you?
     
  4. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    the Cali Intergalctic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon slow downer software- full 4 hour demo
    It's 4:30am in Florida. Maybe after he has his,coffee, we'll get him in here. :thumbsup:
     
    basscapes likes this.
  5. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    Ha. Slacker! I'm in Manchester in the UK, 5 hours ahead...
     
  6. i've tried the speaker level DI in the past (JDI), but unless you have someone who knows how to properly EQ it, it sounds like garbage. trying to EQ using your amp may work but it may also produce undesirable tones from your cab. you are better off investing in a half decent mic. an AKG P2 can be had for around $100. much better than any speaker DI.
     
    smogg, P-oddz, Wasnex and 1 other person like this.
  7. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    Our sound guy is decent but I couldn't say for certain whether he's mixed bass sound this way before. He certainly hasn't with us because this is a new thing for me. I have an AKG D112 for my cab but I always like a direct signal to FOH too.
     
    bassboysam likes this.
  8. then why not just send a clean DI from the bass if you already have a mic? or something like a tone hammer DI which has a speaker sim. i've used that as a backup at the end of my effects chain and it does the job.
     
  9. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    Because I want to capture the sound of the power tubes too. There's so much richness in the amp I feel as though a straight DI wouldn't suffice. I'm not averse to a clean DI - have gone that way many times - but the sound doesn't excite me much.

    I had a Tech 21 Bass VT DI on the last tour - I used that straight to FOH and then mic'd the cab at certain gigs. Sound was good but since I've got an SVT, it's the real deal and I want to get that out front.
     

  10. i've gigged a lot with my SVT and GT200 and the speaker DI just does not do it justice and sounded very unnatural to my ears. really not worth it in my opinion but it's worth a try i suppose. i have not used the countryman but the JDI is a solid piece of gear that can be used in a lot of different ways.
     
    P-oddz, Wasnex and andykeating like this.
  11. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    I've done it with the Countryman and the Radial. I heard no difference in tone. Bith worked great.

    As stated above, the tone that so uh nds best out front will not be as pleasing through you cab.

    But I'm sure that the "Any good sound guy can fit YOUR sound into a mix" crowd will be along any time now to argur that point. (Funny thing is I run sound too. ;))
     
    andykeating likes this.
  12. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    I'm not being facetious, I'm just genuinely curious, but what sounded unnatural? Was it too bass-heavy, too mid-heavy, thin? I'm only so interested because I don't know anyone personally who's gone this way before so I have literally no yardstick for this.
     
  13. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    Cool, good to know the Countryman works well. I'm absolutely fine with my stage sound being compromised, within reason, as long as the house mix is good, and I'd never compromise the house mix just so I get the sound I want on stage.
     
    SoCal80s and two fingers like this.

  14. it just sounded like a dry DI. too much lows, too much highs, no real punch or grunt.
     
    alesreaper9 likes this.
  15. nbsipics

    nbsipics It's the Bass that makes them Dance Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 8, 2016
    Another interesting option is one of these. It can take the speaker-out of the amp IF that's a good thing.

    Rupert Neve RNDI

    RNDI: Rupert Neve DI
     
  16. Ender_rpm

    Ender_rpm

    Apr 18, 2004
    St. Louis MO
    I'd skip the D112 and get a flatter response mic, like the P2 or Audix D4. I have an old Tubeworks 4001 that can go inline, and I've never been happy with the sound. Especially once dirt comes in, you're just fighting/bypassing the largest filters in your system (speakers) and that means a radical difference between DI'd sound and whats hitting your ears. If you have the luxury of a dedicated sound guy, a clean DI plus mic is the ideal set up, IMO. My fall back would be mic only, then DI only. But YMMV.
     
    SLO Surfer, Wasnex and andykeating like this.
  17. tedious1

    tedious1

    Feb 14, 2014
    Hah!, the speaker sim is what has me considering it. At some point, I *WILL* go ampless (emphasis for my band, who granted, will never read this...) and having the speaker sim at that point is an option I think I will want.

    I've got instrument DI already, I get the allure of one piece of kit doing both, but I'm not going to sweat it, since I've got it well covered.
     
    andykeating likes this.
  18. C_Becker

    C_Becker

    Mar 30, 2017
    Germany
    I have been looking at the Palmer PDI-09 for quite a while.
    It should do what you want, good for up to 200 watts.
     
    andykeating likes this.
  19. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    Haven’t really got the budget for another mic like a D4, just bought the SVT and need to factor in getting the DI box. Dirt wouldn’t be a problem because I don’t use overdrive. Clean DI and mic is a route I’ve gone down before and I’m fine with it, just have the urge to do something different.
     
    Ender_rpm likes this.
  20. andykeating

    andykeating

    Oct 5, 2016
    Manchester
    Ha! Tech 21 VT DI is great for ampless, I used it on my last tour and whilst I didn’t go ampless then, I did in the studio and used the speaker sim on there. The JDX48 has the speaker simulation but it can’t be used as an instrument DI, speaker only, at least I think that’s the case.
     

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