DI into PA or seperate Amp

[jim_bass]

Hi, I'm new to the forums and would like someone's opinion...

I am currently playing my Bass (Yamaha Active RBX-374) through our churches PA system. I don't have a monitor but am in front of the left FOH speak and use this as my monitor . I use a Behringer Bass V-Amp Pro, Rack tuner and wireless guitar system in a 4U case and use the V-Amps built in DI to send a Post-FX signal to the desk. I have spent a lot of time playing with the amp models/effects and still find that the sound is too thin for my liking and everything is getting over complicated.

So the decision is this. Should I bin off the rack effects and get myself an amp instead. I could use the DI in the amp to send a signal to the desk to add to the overall sound. I was looking at an Ashdown ABM EVO III or MAG EVO II. Maybe a combo/maybe a head?

I also have an old trace elliot head and cabinet lying around unused and wondered if the cabinet would sound good compared to buying a new ashdown cab. (trace elliot head is faulty though).

Your thoughts please?

 

[SteveC]

I play through a Pod at church into a nice system. I do have my own monitor so I'm in a little better place than you.

If it's time to change your rig (nothing wrong with that) I would try to find a nice little tilt-back combo. You could place it in front of you - like a monitor - and facing back it wouldn't mess with the FOH mix. Any decent combo will have a built in DI that would probably be fine, or you could pick up a DI to use.

For my jazz combo gigs and pop/rock cover band I use a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0-10T combo. 175 watt, 10" with tweeter that weighs 18 pounds. It has more than covered every gig. I usually never have it past 1/2 master. It has a DI for the PA gigs that sounds great. They are a little expensive, but I think worth every penny.

 

[esmtll]

Should I bin off the rack effects and get myself an amp instead. I could use the DI in the amp to send a signal to the desk to add to the overall sound. I was looking at an Ashdown ABM EVO III or MAG EVO II. Maybe a combo/maybe a head?

This is, but of course, only one opinion...I would definitely go the amp route. It's what I've done for the 7 years--on and off--that I've played in churches. Not only will you get the benefits of having a dedicated bass monitor (I'm assuming the PA includes monitors of some sort for the other members, just not enough for you, too) but you'll get a much better preamp sound to send to the board. Though I should ask, how big's the church? What kind of building?

I was looking at an Ashdown ABM EVO III or MAG EVO II. Maybe a combo/maybe a head?

As for which amp, I'm not intimately familiar with Ashdown and so can't recommend them but I would recommend you go with a head + cab. This will allow you to rack the head and position the cab to fit your needs (and keep your band-mates and congregation happy). And since you'd be using the cab primarily for montoring, I'd go for a 2x10 if I were you. It'll keep it nice and clean.

And that's just my two and half cents.

 

[jim_bass]

Hi, thanks for the replies. The church is curently approx. 100 members. Some events we get 200ish attending. We currently use a school hall so the room is fairly big.

In terms of other monitors, the backline get them (guitar/keyboard/drums) as they are behind the speakers, but I'm in the front line as I also do lead vocals/backing vocals (depending on the rota).

I was thinking about a 2x10 cab, but did know how it would differ in sound from a 1x15. Also, the amps I was loking at seems to come in at 180W, 300W + 500W. I'm not sure how much I will need to cut through.

 

[B-string]

The 15" is going to rumble and sound muddy, undefined in a "live" room like a school hall. The 210 will actually sound better.
IME

 

[TVBBass]

Hi Jim,
I'm also in a similar sized church in the UK. I can understand what its like trying to work in the less than ideal settings i.e. things like no dedicated monitors etc.

Anyway

Also, the amps I was loking at seems to come in at 180W, 300W + 500W. I'm not sure how much I will need to cut through.

the watt-age rating will only effect the power amp (i.e. how much comes our your speaker) it will not effect how much comes out of the D.I. and therefore how much will cut through the mix in the FOH.
So you only need to worry about whether it will cut through the stage for your own personal monitoring and it is unlikely that any of those power ratings would struggle in the venue size you talk about if the cab is sat next to you. You may want to consider if you will ever need to play without a dedicated P.A?

I was thinking about a 2x10 cab, but did know how it would differ in sound from a 1x15.

This entirely depends on the make/model of cab you get...yes you could generalise that a 15" will have a fuller low end but ultimatly there are 2X10" and 15" speakers which sound heavey and mudy just like there will be 2X10" and 15" speakers which will sound like they are missing something in the bottom end.
It's all about opinion. I prefer 15" cabs....there are plenty of other people who prefer 2X10 (or 8x10 for that matter!). So have a look around and try as many different combinations of head/ cab as you can get your hands on.

 

[dbassman59]

I play at Church every Sunday as well ... Our Church has well in excess of 250 parishioners at any one time. I used a Yorkville 50 as my monitor. It has a built in DI that I run to the house. I stand right beside the drummer and neither of us have a problem hearing it. Plus it's very light and portable. I pack all my gear in and out every Sunday ...

 

[jim_bass]

I'd like something that could cut it without going into FOH aswell. When we run youth events etc, we don't always want to run full PA. Also part of the reasoning for the change is the current sound I'm getting out of the PA, so I'm not sure if getting a smaller combo and DI'ing it will achive anything more than I already get. If it's the PA/Speakers that are sounding weak, then using a new amp as a monitor wont do the job as only I will hear the better sound.

Thoughts?

I really want something that will give me better tone.

 

[SteveC]

If it's the PA/Speakers that are sounding weak, then using a new amp as a monitor wont do the job as only I will hear the better sound.

Thoughts?

If that's the case then you need to update the PA. Do you know what you are running for PA?

 

[jim_bass]

We only got the PA about 18 months ago and it is fine for everything else, it just doesn't seem to handle the low end needed for the bass as well as I would hope.

It's a behringer 2442FX-Pro Desk with a Tapco (Mackie) Juice 1400 amp and a pair of 15" Studiospares PA speakers.

Maybe it's just that my effects make is sound bad, I dunno?

 

[jim_bass]

I tell a lie, they are 12" PA speakers.

 

[esmtll]

I'd like something that could cut it without going into FOH aswell. When we run youth events etc, we don't always want to run full PA...

I really want something that will give me better tone.

That only slightly changes how you'd go about this. You'd still want to get something that will 'backup' the PA (I'd still go through the PA whenever possible/feasible). Whatever amp/cab/combo you go for will now just add a little extra low end to what's being mixed FOH. A 15" cab may make more sense in this case. But, good 2x10s can cut it too. Combine the 2x10 with a 15" extension and now you're really talking!

And more power (300W MAG or 500W ABM you cited earlier) will definitley be nice to have for youth events where you don't run everything through a system. I am certainly no great fan of Behringer but at one point I was using a Behringer DI box that the church had for all of our inputs and was getting some good sounds from the PA only so I'm betting it's not your V-Amp. Of course, I don't want to Behringer either, but a good amp will be almost guaranteed to get you a better tone, PA or no PA.

 

[dbassman59]

Well .... a couple of questions I assume you have drums ... is the gear you bring your own or the church's ... What type of bass do you play? ... If the gear is yours, do you take it home with you?

Assuming you will own the gear ... and you take it home with you after church ... get something light ... get something that's at least 300W.

How much of a budget do you have? If I was to buy a combo today for my Church gig ... and I was playing under your circumstances, I would look at a Mesa Boogie Walkabout or a Markbass CMD 121p.

You may also want to rent something to try first .... IMO get something with power. IMO you will regret it if you buy under powered ...

 

[jim_bass]

@dbassman59

Yes we have drums, The bass gear is my own, but I store it in the church PA cupboard. I only take it home when I need to. I play a Yamaha RBX374 Active bass.

I looked at both of those combo's but they are over budget. Ideally, I'm after something £300 - £600, preferably light weight, but not sure if going heavy and getting valve pre-amp is worth the extra. If I spend all my budget on a head, then I'll have to use the church's Trace Elliot cab.

 

[jim_bass]

I found a little mark 250 (which is 250W into 4ohm) for £360. How much power would that give into our 8ohm cabinet? Would it be more or less? And would that be a suitable amp?

That would give me a bit more cash to get a cabinet if needed.

 

[TVBBass]

Hey jim_bass,
The MArk Bass LM amps are great! 250W into 4Ohms would give you some where around 150W into an 8Ohm cab... (not the best power)
If you like the MarkBass stuff (As I do) then you would be able to get the LMII (which is 500W 4Ohms and ~300W 8Ohms) within your budget if you are prepeared to use the churches cab until you 're able to get you're own. Electro Music in Doncaster (not too far from you) have it listed at £539.00 but if you ring up I wouldn't be surprise if you could talk them down to the £500 mark...ask for Dave...he did me a great deal on my MarkBass 15" cab and shipped it in over night for me.
I know £500 can seem a lot but it is a far better head than the LM250.
As much as I love Mark Bass unfortunatly they're not the4 cheapest. but in terms of cutting through I used to gig mine with no P.A. against a full BigBand at univeristy doing Balls and stuff.

 

[jim_bass]

Thanks TVBBass. Have phoned Electro Music and am going to go and try out a mark bass Little Mark II and an Ashdown MAG 600 EVO II when I get a free weekend. Turns out that their Bass guy is away at NAMM.

 

[TVBBass]

Thanks TVBBass. Have phoned Electro Music and am going to go and try out a mark bass Little Mark II and an Ashdown MAG 600 EVO II when I get a free weekend. Turns out that their Bass guy is away at NAMM.

LOL, it's alright for some!!! he's probaly looking at the new Little Mark 800 the showing at NAMM (the next one up from LMII)....I'm guess thats not gonna be cheap though!
Yeah, I used to like Ashdown (still do like the sound) but a church I went to in Newcastle got a MAG as the "house" bass amp and after sending it back for faults 4 times they ended up keeping the Peavey head that the shop loaned them whilst the Ashdown was being repaired...(and I certainly wouldn't recommend the Peavey...it certainly didn't have a tone that I was happy with)

So since then I've sort of shyed away from new ashdown ...although it would leave enough money for a cab so just check that the warrenty covers you incase you get a dud.

Hope you find what you want

 

[jim_bass]

Cheers. I've also found a shop in Boston (about 45 mins from my house) who stock Ashdown, so am going to try out an ABM 500 head, a MAG 300 Head and a Little Giant 350.

 

[TVBBass]

You'll have to let me know if the Boston shop is any good, I've never found a music shop in Lincolnshire worth going to, I have to go to Electro Music in Doncaster (Yorkshire) or LiveMusic in Peterborough (Cambridgeshire) so let me know...(Live Music did me a good discount on my LMII and threw in a rack case and ears).
If you do go for the smaller stlye amp i.e. Mark Bass or Ashdown Little giant, I've found that a n aluminuim flight case is both cheaper and more practical thatn getting them rack mounted. I got a foam filled one from Maplin for £15 and made it to fit perfectly for LMII and a section for tuner & bits and bobs. Just dont let them convince youto spend £50 on 2 units rack case before you've looked at other options.