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Double Bass DI question: mic level versus line level

#21
I've been using my Headway straight out to soundboards lately and have no complaints about signal levels from soundguys. If you are still using that in front of the amp take the line from there rather than the amp.

Other than that, what's up with the soundguy?. He should have little XLR to 1/4" adaptoid in his bag of utility junk to take the line out of the XLR and bypass the mic pre. It couldn't be the first line level XLR he's ever seen.

Thirdly, why doesn't the board have a pad switch? I've used my Focus on a gazillion gigs through all sizes of PA. Never a peep from the soundguy. Weird.
 
#22
Uncletoad said:
Other than that, what's up with the soundguy?. He should have little XLR to 1/4" adaptoid in his bag of utility junk to take the line out of the XLR and bypass the mic pre. It couldn't be the first line level XLR he's ever seen.

Thirdly, why doesn't the board have a pad switch? I've used my Focus on a gazillion gigs through all sizes of PA. Never a peep from the soundguy. Weird.
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly.

Especially the part about having a pad on the board.

is your sound guy a bass player? that might explain it.
 
#23
Uncletoad said:
I've been using my Headway straight out to soundboards lately and have no complaints about signal levels from soundguys. If you are still using that in front of the amp take the line from there rather than the amp.

Other than that, what's up with the soundguy?. He should have little XLR to 1/4" adaptoid in his bag of utility junk to take the line out of the XLR and bypass the mic pre. It couldn't be the first line level XLR he's ever seen.

Thirdly, why doesn't the board have a pad switch? I've used my Focus on a gazillion gigs through all sizes of PA. Never a peep from the soundguy. Weird.
Click to expand...

+large number. When I need to send signal I send it from my Fishman not my AI.
 
#24
I just glanced at it to be sure...my Peavey 8600 all in one PA board amp thing has a 25db pad switch on it. That stupid thing cost $450 including a pair of 600w amps, a couple graphic EQ's and a decent DSP.

My old Mackie 1604 has no pads but the trim pot goes from +10 to -60. Can't imagine why that wouldn't work. In the 10 years I did live sound on the side I never had an issue with anyone's amps or active DI.

Mackie must have fallen into the stupid bucket as of late.
 
#26
Uncletoad said:
I've been using my Headway straight out to soundboards lately and have no complaints about signal levels from soundguys. If you are still using that in front of the amp take the line from there rather than the amp.
Click to expand...

I don't use the Headway unless it's needed to clean up the onstage sound, and the PJB sounds glorious (with a little fdeck in the fx loop) all by itself in that room - fat, warm, present... perfect. :)

Other than that, what's up with the soundguy?. He should have little XLR to 1/4" adaptoid in his bag of utility junk to take the line out of the XLR and bypass the mic pre. It couldn't be the first line level XLR he's ever seen.
Click to expand...

There is no soundguy. The club set up the board and lights, and the singer - who's actually super cool and a great singer - checks the levels and makes little adjustments based on what's happening; the board is onstage behind us, more of a sound system to get the sound of the band out to different parts of the club than a "soundguy out front amplifying the band" kind of setup.

Thirdly, why doesn't the board have a pad switch? I've used my Focus on a gazillion gigs through all sizes of PA. Never a peep from the soundguy. Weird.
Click to expand...

I checked three times for a pad switch, but there isn't one. I thought that was weird, too. My soundcraft board in my music room doesn't have one either, but I thought most Mackies did. Apparently not.
 
#27
That Headway has become my secret weapon for everything. I play my old Fenders through it and they sound amazing. The only thing it doesn't like is super hot active electronics.

How bout using the headway from the fx send of the PJ amp out to the board. It's got lots of gain control and a great DI....and you already own it.

If that's to hot use the FX send through a cheap passive DI. Should be fine.
 
#29
ee-san said:
Request for clarification: Why add a DI to the FX send instead of just going direct from the FX send (if it's not in use for something else) to the board? Seems to work for me. Is there that much benefit from the extra equipment?
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no reason not to use 1/4 jack unbalanced line from the FX send to the input on the board. TRS and XLR connectors with 3 conductor cables are often quieter with less signal degradation over long cable runs. In this context with a short cable run and medium fidelity requirements there is little advantage to converting to balanced lines. In Chris' case though the DI with a volume knob might be needed to trim the signal level to the board it's entering. Even from the FX send the output may be to hot.
 
#32
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Dang, you guys are good! I'll try the XLR-1/4 thing first, since what the guy at the club said sounds related to converting line-level output to a connector that will connect with the line in on the board. If that doesn't do it, then I'll think about pads and/or direct boxes. Thanks, guys... more when the shopping is done.
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No, they are not good! They are wandering in the wilderness!

1. Why is the level on you Amp-DI too high? Because they didn't care what they were doing.

2. Why doesn't it have a build in attenuator. Eden too cheap to put it in or didn't even know it was needed.

3. Why not use separate Behringer DI. Reason #1: It says "Behringer" on it. It's extra parts. It's extra batteries. It's crap. BUT it DOES have a built-in attenuator.

4. Why not go deal with the input levels at the sound board? Because the sound-guy will cut your gonads off (or should). You are lucky he's allowing you to use the DI in your amp instead of the one HE supplies!

5. So why not either convert to line level 1/4" plugs or use FX out instead. Because the DI XLR line is a differential balanced low impedance line designed to send a pure signal over huge distances with no loss or noise, that's why.

6. So what's the answer? Simple. It's called an XLR Pad. It looks like a tube with an XLR on both ends. They are rated in dBs of attenuation and come in various values. They are often available for a song at guitar shows. They are passive and take no batteries. They do not change your signal except for voltage. They maintain the line impedance value through them while reducing the signal level. Even if you have to buy them new they aren't THAT expensive. If you are starving, you can make your own with a couple resistors inside the connectors on a short XLR cable. (resistors like 5 cents each)

And if you REALLY wanted to be "cool" you'd pay to have some tech wire an attenuator INSIDE your amp DI with a switch for several values just like the crappy Behringer has. Then there are no external things to plug in, no batteries to deal with, no sound guy anger, no separate boxes, just pure logical thought!

By the way, the proper location for the attenuator is at the sound board end rather than at the amp! Just don't get too near the sound-guy or bend over for any reason when offering it.

OK?

<Sorry to have invaded from the Bass Guitar forums but you guys obviously needed some help> :hiding:
 
#35
probably 13 years ago i had a carvin r600I bass head that sent out a VERY hot signal through the DI and the sound board people hated it! so i then went and purchased a product from SHURE that allows me to pad down the signal and i NEVER had that issue again.. this is why now i wont buy a bass head until it has a control knob on the DI circuit so i can control the amount of signal the board is getting..
 
#37
Most boards I have ran into have PADs built into them to solve this problem. I also keep a Hosa ATT-448 which is a selectable XLR Pad. I tried the XLR to 1/4" adapters in the past, but keeping the signal balanced=less problems.

ATT-448-2.jpg
 
#38
uprightbass.com said:
Most boards I have ran into have PADs built into them to solve this problem. I also keep a Hosa ATT-448 which is a selectable XLR Pad. I tried the XLR to 1/4" adapters in the past, but keeping the signal balanced=less problems.

ATT-448-2.jpg
Click to expand...

This totally looks like the way to go with the selector switch on there. Like I said, you guys are good. :)
 
#39
+1 for the XLR pad, small and inexpensive
+1 for the direct box
+2 for a good direct box with a Jensen transformer

I go back and forth with this stuff in my own mind. As a professional in the audio world I realize the benefit of a really good direct box with a Jensen transformer. The Radial stuff is great.

However even a cheap DI is better than a distorted signal.

If you are really picky and the PA/venue is worth it I use the best gear I can find. Here are some things to consider with direct boxes and the bass. To produce 'hot' line levels and low frequencies without distortion requires a well designed transformer that is larger than one that works for voice or guitar. So it is also one thing to buy a $35 DI that is OK for guitar at -20, but another if you are already sending +4 from a balanced line out.

My rule of thumb is to plug it in and see if I hear the difference. If I hear the diference it's worth it to me. I appreciate the posts.
 

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