DI to Line Level conversion, XLR-XLR

[ArtechnikA]

I had hoped to run my Carvin wireless IEM from my amp's DI out - it works but the level is much too low.
I'm looking for the minimal DI->line-level (e.g. monitor return) amp/convertor.
I've looked at small mixers but haven't found any small, inexpensive mixers with XLR out suitable for sending directly to the IEM input.

The Rolls MB35 USB DI/Level Matcher is the closest I've found, and it's priced comparable to the small mixers I've been looking at.

Open to other suggestions.

 

[s0c9]

The Carvin takes XLR or 1/4" inputs and needs a line-level signal as input.
Are you looking for XLR because that's what's on your amps line out connector or ?
DI's tend to be low-Z so they can get plugged into a stage box/snake.

You could try one of these.. and keep the levels low.. cheap too..
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-MA400-BEHRINGER-MICROMON/dp/B000KUCQXY/ref=sr_1_4?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1420215647&sr=1-4&keywords=headphone amps

Ideally, you would feed your amp and anything else you need in the Carvin from a mixer feed.
I hope you are not putting your IEM in one ear (with your amp) and leaving the other out to hear stage volume? That's not good for your ears.

My advice... bite the bullet and buy a cheap mixer..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0K12A7PKBZ49YS51BVQ4

Both options are cheaper than the Rolls MB35

 

[Geri O]

I had hoped to run my Carvin wireless IEM from my amp's DI out - it works but the level is much too low.
I'm looking for the minimal DI->line-level (e.g. monitor return) amp/convertor.
I've looked at small mixers but haven't found any small, inexpensive mixers with XLR out suitable for sending directly to the IEM input.

The Rolls MB35 USB DI/Level Matcher is the closest I've found, and it's priced comparable to the small mixers I've been looking at.

Open to other suggestions.

With a small mixer, the outputs are usually balanced, but sent out via TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) 1/4" connectors that look like guitar plugs. You can get a very simple TRS - to - XLR adapter to come from the mixer to a mic cable and send to your IEM transmitter's input.

The mixer is a good idea, because you can take a send from the house mixer and blend in your bass with the house mix. You will probably need a -20 or -30db pad on the house mix send as it will be too hot for the mic-level input on your little mixer. It should be available from the same place you get the TRS-to-XLR adapter.

 

[walterw]

+1 to needing a mixing solution anyway; even if you could run the IEMs straight off the bass amp, you wouldn't hear the rest of the band!

 

[ArtechnikA]

Good general suggestions, I agree.
A) I can hear the rest of the band just fine through 20-dB earplugs, I have little doubt I couldn't hear them through SE-215's.
B) since the Carvin is not designed to be rack-mounted, I made an XLR front-panel extension, so while 1/4" is technically supported, I prefer not.
C) there are no PA monitor mixes; if there were, I'd run it into the Right channel, me into the Left, and use the Carvin' balance for blend.

I'd never expose one ear to stage (or rehearsal room) volume, much less two...

If I needed a mixer, I know there's a 2-channel Rolls personal mixer (350?) that would work. But mostly I need to make sure I can always hear myself - fretless...

 

[ggunn]

...while 1/4" is technically supported, I prefer not.

Why not? If 1/4" unbalanced solves your problem, then use it. For short runs, balanced doesn't buy you anything besides 3dB more gain, and if you've got enough signal without that 3dB, then why make things more complicated than they have to be?

 

[ArtechnikA]

Why not? If 1/4" unbalanced solves your problem, then use it. For short runs, balanced doesn't buy you anything besides 3dB more gain, and if you've got enough signal without that 3dB, then why make things more complicated than they have to be?

Go ask Carvin why they put the INPUTS on the BACK of a rack-mounted box...(They put the RF output jack there too, which makes even less sense. There's a knockout in the ($35) bracket but they don't supply a cable...)
I don't want to have to play 'go fish' inside a deep rack every time I need to plug in an input.
I'm glad it's an option, but I prefer to explore other options first.

 

[walterw]

A) I can hear the rest of the band just fine through 20-dB earplugs, I have little doubt I couldn't hear them through SE-215's.

i dunno, good bass through IEMs is all about the seal! if you can hear the rest of the band with nothing but your bass in IEMs, the earbuds probably aren't gonna make you happy with your bass tone.

also, single-driver earbuds are a waste of money IMO, you want dual-driver at the very least.

C) there are no PA monitor mixes; if there were, I'd run it into the Right channel, me into the Left, and use the Carvin' balance for blend.

then you definitely want to wrangle some kind of little mixer, like the rolls or whatever, even if just to blend in the main mix with your "more me" bass. if you're singing too, then it becomes even more critical to get your "more me" vocals happening as well.

I'd never expose one ear to stage (or rehearsal room) volume, much less two...

good.

 

[tbirdsp]

What walterw said. Also I find it weird that your amp DI won't drive the Carvin IEM's loud enough - I have a Shure PSM200 and drive it from my GK MB500 Fusion's DI and have PLENTY of headroom left. I suspect that the reason you can't hear yourself (and that you think you will be able to hear the band despite earbuds) is you aren't getting a good seal! I tried the SE215's that came with my PSM200 system - thought they sounded OK - until I upgraded to Westone UM Pro 30 triple drivers - the difference is striking!
How are there "no PA monitor mixes"!

 

[ArtechnikA]

...I find it weird that your amp DI won't drive the Carvin IEM's loud enough - I have a Shure PSM200 and drive it from my GK MB500 Fusion's DI and have PLENTY of headroom left.

I'm happy for you, but it is definitely the case.
Maybe the LH1000 has a very tame mic-level DI out; there is no level control.
I'll try it again with the B7K DI but I expect the same.

I suspect that the reason you can't hear yourself (and that you think you will be able to hear the band despite earbuds) is you aren't getting a good seal!

It's more than that. I conducted this test in the complete quiet of my living room, with a few different buds. I could hear sounds, barely, through the buds with everything on the transmitter and receiver adjusted for maximum output.
I know the Westones are superior to the 215's - I have some in a wishlist somewhere. If some combination of need and improved finances hits, I'll go that way.

How are there "no PA monitor mixes"!

I knew this question would come up.
I'm new to the band which is in a 'rebuilding phase' and we're just in rehearsal until spring.
I've asked about the gigging equipment setup and not got much in the way of definitive responses.
But the answer seems to be that we will be relying on venue-provided backlines and PA. This is another reason why I'm determined to find a personal monitor solution I can drive from my own DI.
I won't be singing any time soon; I'm not good at it (although I do work on it) and right now playing fretless in tune on new material takes all my concentration. I don't know how Jack Bruce did it, and I'm no Jack Bruce...

 

[ggunn]

I knew this question would come up.

As well it should. If you are going to rely on IEMs for monitors and if your earpieces are any good, you'll need a monitor mix in them, not just your bass sound. That your amp's DI puts out a mic/instr level signal and whatever you have driving your "earbuds" needs a line level signal is not a surprise to me. If you are determined to have leaky cheap earbuds with only your bass in them and to hear the rest of the band by way of the leakage, then get a mic preamp and put it between your amp and your earbud amplifier. There are plenty to choose from and some of them are pretty inexpensive.

 

[ArtechnikA]

That your amp's DI puts out a mic/instr level signal and whatever you have driving your "earbuds" needs a line level signal is not a surprise to me.

Me either, which is why I started the thread in the first place. I'm looking for solutions.

If you are determined to have leaky cheap earbuds with only your bass in them...

I'm not 'determined' to do anything except make the best of the venue-provided backline/PA environment in which this band will be operating. I'm expecially not 'determined' to use anything cheap, except to the extent that if it solves the problem, I'm done. I know there are many excellent IEM's available with no upper bound on price. I'm not a professional, and we're not _that_ loud - this is blues, not metal. The Westones are quite attractive and I'm more leaning that way than the 215's. Both the Rolls 35 I mentioned above and the "Personal Monitor 351" are 2-channel mixers and I could easily just use a mic in front of a monitor speaker to pick up the 'band mix' with one of those.

...then get a mic preamp and put it between your amp and your earbud amplifier....

I presume by 'earbud amplifier' you mean the Carvin EM900 transmitter. Thanks for reminding me that I actually already have an ART Tube MP on the shelf from an earlier project. That ought to boost the DI signal level to the line level the EM900 wants quite nicely. That will work in the meanwhile and I'll test it today and verify at the next practice. I'll go to a 2-channel solution if necessary - as you insist it will be.

 

[Geri O]

Hey, easy, now, folks are trying to help. After all, you asked...

Actually, I think you are on the right track. If you want to take it a step at a time, that's a reasonable course of action. I, like others here, do think you'll eventually find the need for a small mixer. It's inexpensive and very easy to do. But carry on as you see fit. Not a bad way to go. The Westones are a good idea. With any generic earbuds, make sure you have the right inserts that are comfortable AND give you a good deal.

Good luck!

 

[ArtechnikA]

Hey, easy, now, folks are trying to help. After all, you asked...

I got that. I appreciate it.

I, like others here, do think you'll eventually find the need for a small mixer.

I guess our difference is only in the definition of 'small.' I do not consider 12 channels 'small.' Both of the Rolls devices I've referenced _are_ in fact small mixers. 2 channels. One for me, one for everything else. I'm not sure why this is controversial ;-)... The reality is that I'm not going to get any kind of monitor signal from the board. If I were, I'd know how to deal with it. so I'm needing a solution that works with what I have to work with.

Good luck!

Thanks.

 

[ggunn]

Hey, easy, now, folks are trying to help. After all, you asked...

Actually, I think you are on the right track. If you want to take it a step at a time, that's a reasonable course of action. I, like others here, do think you'll eventually find the need for a small mixer. It's inexpensive and very easy to do. But carry on as you see fit. Not a bad way to go. The Westones are a good idea. With any generic earbuds, make sure you have the right inserts that are comfortable AND give you a good deal.

Good luck!

I used IEM's for years with a cover band I was in. I had a mixer that combined my vocal mic, my acoustic guitar, the mic in front of my guitar amp, a monitor mix, and an ambient mic into a stereo (panning made things much more intelligible) mix for my custom molded IEM's. The thing about good IEMs is that they seal very well and if you don't send them a signal containing what you want to hear, you won't hear it.

The ambient mic made a lot of difference in my situation. Drums and bass were rarely in the monitors, so without the ambient mic I'd not have been able to hear them. The mixer was a 4 channel one with individual channel passthrough to the snake, and aux inputs. The monitor mix came in through an aux.

 

[tbirdsp]

If there is ANY monitor mix going on - you should be able to get it to your IEM transmitter somehow. Most power amps have parallel inputs and you could take a feed out from an unused input. If powered monitor speakers they almost all have a "through" jack that could be your feed.
Using the Tube MP (I have one I keep around too) to boost your DI signal should solve your immediate problem.
I wasn't doubting your experience, just still find it strange your DI won't drive the EM900 transmitter. I've used my PSM200 with the DI on my MB500 Fusion and my TC BG250 combo - plenty of volume with both the input on the transmitter and the volume on my body pack well below 50%. Many people suggested the Carvin unit to me as an alternative to the Shure PSM200 - but if it needs that hot of a signal to drive it that would have been a deal breaker for me.
The PSM 200 is mono but has two input channels with independent level controls, plus a through jack for each. I run the DI from my bass head to one channel with the through jack out to the PA - that way I have instant "more me" control of my bass. I run a monitor aux send from the PA into the other channel. Our regular sound guy has a x32 digital board with plenty of auxes and we can control our own mixes from our iPhones.

 

[walterw]

I guess our difference is only in the definition of 'small.' I do not consider 12 channels 'small.' Both of the Rolls devices I've referenced _are_ in fact small mixers. 2 channels. One for me, one for everything else. I'm not sure why this is controversial ;-)...

i's not, and in fact is just what we're all talking about when we say "small mixer"!

something like the rolls, or any number of little $99 mixers from mackie, behringer or whatever, would fit the bill; if you're gonna run IEMs without control of the overall PA situation, this is the way you need to go.

especially if you're not singing, you could use the other channel to get even the main mix from the PA, which should be enough to track what's going on around you. there are even cheap DI boxes that are padded down to where you could plug them into the PA speakers and get a usable signal tapped off.

you could also (or instead) throw out a mic on a stand to get the stage sound and pipe that in, so you hear everybody without getting blasted.

 

[morgansterne]

I have the carvin IEM unit. When I don't think I'll be getting a custom IEM mix, I bring my allen and heath zed10 mixer. They sound great and have a ton of routing options, plus I can record demos at home with it. I've also used it as a drum submixer a few times, they're handy. Sometimes we'll be at a venue where I know I won't be able to make a bunch of adjustments -- like a crowded stage where our PA mixer will be set up on the other side -- so a little mixer of my stuff plus a main mix feed is better.
I'd like to perhaps get an art tube or other small preamp and use it for an ambient mic. So far I haven't felt the need for stereo panning or ambient mics with my in ears.