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Double Bass Did NHOP use magnetic pickups?
- Thread starter mildavw
- Start date
Yes,
Four individual elements into a 4 channel mixer. The tone quality was weird, but no one cared because it was NHOP. He also used a Wilson 4 Element.
Four individual elements into a 4 channel mixer. The tone quality was weird, but no one cared because it was NHOP. He also used a Wilson 4 Element.
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At some point, the URB, amplified, is just an electric instrument. But when is that line crossed, and does it really matter?
It matters to me. Generally, I think the line is crossed when you are not using a microphone to capture the sound of the bass. (The greatest compliment of any other type of transducer seems to be "It sounds like a microphone".) Hence, my Avatar.
I was blown away when I first heard the 'Great Connection' album with Oscar Peterson and NHOP. Today I'd rather listen to a recording of Charlie Haden.
In my wildest fantasies, I will never have a tiny fraction of NHOP's chops. What I can have, however (most of the time and in most situations where I play) is a good amplified tone. By that, I mean tone that sounds like it's not even being amplified. You know, the old MBOL thing.
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NHØP was amazing. I don't care much about the magnetic tone, because he was always so musically on. Also amazing what Oscar is able to do with basically only one working hand here!
As I understand it, it is 4 magnets that induce current in the vibrating strings. An intriguing system. I think it is still around, amo for violin, but the name escapes me. Perhaps someone else can chime in. NHØP can be be heard with more acoustic sound on many recordings, but I think his signature sound has its merits.
NHØP also used to endorse a magnetic pickup called the 'string charger', if I remember correctly...
Yeah his “magnetic “ tone was his own , for better or for worse.
Check this clip out, NHOP was one of the best that ever touched a bass.
In this video it looks like the 4 channel mixer is present but it doesn’t sound like it’s on.
I think to many URB players, the magnetic tone is "bad" because it doesn't sound like an unamplified bass -- see
Rick Wolff's post, above. I used to have a beef with URB players like NHØP, because much of what they were doing was simply impossible without treating the bass as an electrified instrument. But then, a lot of players have been experimenting over the years, and I see that as a good thing. Now I think it's great to have your amplified bass sound as if it's not amplified, if that's what you want. And it's also okay to have an URB sound like something else, use effects, etc.
Tone is subjective, but being lost in the mix is much less so. I heard Sharona Cohen's band playing outside in Boston once. The keys were electric and the URB was unamplified. Directly in front of the band, you could hear the bass, but you could hear the low end only if you were not too far off. Off-axis, it started to disappear. It just seemed to me if your keys are electric, why not amplify the bass? The gig was on an island, though, so maybe he just didn't want to haul any extra gear. He played heroically, however!
+1 to each their own.
When I play with a pianist using an electric keyboard I use my 'second' bass with the KNA Piezo. That bass sounds 'better' with the Piezo than with a mic.
And yes, Chris, NHOP was one of the greatest and one of a kind. I love his tone on the Great Connections album - I suspect that may have been Just Mic.
I'm not saying 'my sound' (or MBOL for that matter) is 'better', or that it works better in every situation, it's just the sound I hear in my head and what I prefer.
We are fortunate to have So Many Options when it comes to basses, strings, pickups/mics, amps, styles of music etc. It allows each of us to find our unique voice and express our own musical uniqueness.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I’m sure Oscar would have preferred to have both hands available but his playing here is just SO tasty. Everything below the S belongs to the bass player anyway, right?
- Jan 12, 2004
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Here's a video of Oscar playing with both Ray Brown and NHOP:
The two bassists take turns playing (e.g., alternating choruses at up tempos!). In a version I saw some years ago - not sure if it's in this clip - NHOP provides some overdubbed commentary about their two different amplification methods. Note NHOP's large Fender amp versus Ray's microphone! Both bassists are amazing, but different.
The two bassists take turns playing (e.g., alternating choruses at up tempos!). In a version I saw some years ago - not sure if it's in this clip - NHOP provides some overdubbed commentary about their two different amplification methods. Note NHOP's large Fender amp versus Ray's microphone! Both bassists are amazing, but different.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
When they came out for the encore, NHOP’s amp wouldn’t power up (unplugged),so Oscar suggested he solo on Ray’s bass. He really struggled with it, and Ray looked at him and said, ‘not on my bass’. Different approaches for sure and each player used the instrument and equipment that suited him.
NHOP endorsed the Pierre Josephs String Charger. I have no idea if Pierre is still alive or making pickups...he had no web presence but ran small ads in the back of Bass Player magazine with NHOP's quote.
I bought one over 20 years ago, it was about $250. It is a great solution to screaming stage volumes leading to feedback. It sounds like a bass guitar at worst, or at best that 70s Ron Carter CTI sound. It's got a rubber-like exterior and can be bent into various shapes to match the fingerboard curvature or change the distance to the strings. It attaches to the fingerboard using 3M Dual-Lock which is like a plastic Velcro.
At that time with the only other mag pickup available was the Biesele. Now there's the Schaller reissue, Krivo, etc. The Bridge Charger is a simple piezo that plugged into an RCA jack in the String Charger, but there was no way to balance the volume of the two. I found it useless. Some people glued the Bridge Charger under the fingerboard for slapping. The little can under the String Charger is some kind of transformer.
I bought one over 20 years ago, it was about $250. It is a great solution to screaming stage volumes leading to feedback. It sounds like a bass guitar at worst, or at best that 70s Ron Carter CTI sound. It's got a rubber-like exterior and can be bent into various shapes to match the fingerboard curvature or change the distance to the strings. It attaches to the fingerboard using 3M Dual-Lock which is like a plastic Velcro.
At that time with the only other mag pickup available was the Biesele. Now there's the Schaller reissue, Krivo, etc. The Bridge Charger is a simple piezo that plugged into an RCA jack in the String Charger, but there was no way to balance the volume of the two. I found it useless. Some people glued the Bridge Charger under the fingerboard for slapping. The little can under the String Charger is some kind of transformer.
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Earl
Supporting Member
Charlie is one of my favorites but I never found his live (and when recorded with a pickup) sound very natural at all - too overblown in the bass for me. Interestingly, I have heard NHOP with and without a pickup and to me his pickup sound sound was pretty close to his no pickup sound.
Earl
Supporting Member
When I used steel strings for a while (Jargars), I tried a Krivo magnetic pickup and I got a surprisingly fairly natural sound with it.
Actually their were two other magnetic pickups that preceded the Pierre Joseph’s. The dual magnet Toby pickup that screwed to the under side of the fingerboard (think Fender Precision bass pickups without pole pieces) and the Paul Tonnenges that had 4 magnets (one per string)! There was also a dual element Bartolini on my 1985 Clevenger “Keyhole”EUB . There were probably others I’ve missed as well.
I gigged with a homemade magnetic pickup for several years on my Kay. I can attest to the fact that it was nearly feedback-free. The reason is that the strings themselves function as a nearly ideal bandpass filter FWIW.
In my case, I pulled the coils out of a couple of surplus miniature electric motors and stuck some rare earth magnets inside them, then made a little bracket that attached to the end of my fingerboard. I still have it, but I play with a piezo today.
In my case, I pulled the coils out of a couple of surplus miniature electric motors and stuck some rare earth magnets inside them, then made a little bracket that attached to the end of my fingerboard. I still have it, but I play with a piezo today.
While I did use the Tonnenges for a couple years because the only other pickups on the market in 1975-76 were the Polytone and Barcus Berry Silver Bar piezo. By comparison to those pickups the Tonnenges was an improvement. Once the Underwood became available in the midwest circa 1977-78 I had the magnetic taken of and got rid of it.
