It seems most of my Amps offer D.I., but does anybody mic their bass amp instead? Are there any reasons/benefits for using a mic instead?
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Direct or Mic?
- Thread starter spazmed
- Start date
It depends if your talking about recording or live. There are advantages and disadvantages of both. The biggest being the DI is only 1 tone. With a mic you can position it in many different ways to achieve desired results. Not many people use a mic live for bass becuase any difference is really gonna be lost in the mix, and is not worth the extra time and money a mic would cause. It also depends on what kind of mics you have available. If you go to a studio and your bass amp is a behringer and all they have to record it is a sm57 then yea your better off DI'ing it. The last time i recorded i had a vintage ampeg b15 and a nuemann fet47 to record it with. Am i going to DI in this situation, hell no. Personally i really like micing my amp alot more, but you have to realize what your working with. A DI is gonna sound pretty good all the time. Is it gonna sound GREAT. I have found the only way to make my bass sound GREAT is by micing it but thats def one mans opinion. Alot of engineers swear by a great DI.
You make a good point...it does depend on live or recording. I am sure I have never used a mic live, but I have see it done all the time by full time bands that can afford any gear they want. I guess I was talking more for recording. While on the subject of your response I noticed you mentioned that it depends on the mic available. Any suggestions for a good bass mic? What frequencies are desired for a bass mic? Amps usually cover from low to high so I would assume you would want one that could handle at minimum all that your amp offered (at least what your personal settings require).
I'll take off my bass player hat and throw on my FOH mixer hat for this one. This deals with live situations.
There are a quite a few different variables involved here , I'll hit the most common ones:
1.A direct signal from the bass using a direct box- This is generally my preferred way of taking a direct signal from a bassist as it is usually the cleanest signal route to take. The sound is good ( here's where your higher end basses really shine) and can easily be tweaked to set in the mix well. You can get more midrange and highs to cut thru easier than with a mic (great for soloing). Probably the best and easiest choice without getting too complex.
2.Direct out from the amp- This depends on whether your direct signal is pre or post eq (post means the eq knobs will change the sound you are sending to the board). I will not use a post eq send since the bass amp is really your bass monitor for your onstage sound and the eq settings used for that may not be what you need for the sound out front. Post DI sends are generally used for recording purposes. Pre eq sends are basically the same as a direct box, usually wired straight off the input jack. However in my experience, amp DI's are noisy and I much prefer a separate direct box.
3. Using a mic-This option is good if you are really trying to recreate the sound coming out of your bass rig, especially if you are using effects.The sound with a proper mic (designed for low frequency replication) is usually fatter, warmer, and has more bottom than a direct signal, but used alone it may take a bit more work to get the presence of a direct signal.
When I am mixing concerts I always insist on both a direct box and a mic. My favorite mic being a Shure Beta 52. I get the bottom end of my mix with the kick drum and bass mic. I use the direct signal for the mid/top end of the bass sound to get it cutting thru the mix, and for bass solos to get the sound jumping out and in your face.
Sorry this is so long and probably may have made you more indecisive on your choice, but it is not a cut and dry answer. Hopefully this will give you some more insight and help you decide. Of course if you are running into a PA system, it comes down to the room, the quality of the PA system and the engineer's ears and skill level.
There are a quite a few different variables involved here , I'll hit the most common ones:
1.A direct signal from the bass using a direct box- This is generally my preferred way of taking a direct signal from a bassist as it is usually the cleanest signal route to take. The sound is good ( here's where your higher end basses really shine) and can easily be tweaked to set in the mix well. You can get more midrange and highs to cut thru easier than with a mic (great for soloing). Probably the best and easiest choice without getting too complex.
2.Direct out from the amp- This depends on whether your direct signal is pre or post eq (post means the eq knobs will change the sound you are sending to the board). I will not use a post eq send since the bass amp is really your bass monitor for your onstage sound and the eq settings used for that may not be what you need for the sound out front. Post DI sends are generally used for recording purposes. Pre eq sends are basically the same as a direct box, usually wired straight off the input jack. However in my experience, amp DI's are noisy and I much prefer a separate direct box.
3. Using a mic-This option is good if you are really trying to recreate the sound coming out of your bass rig, especially if you are using effects.The sound with a proper mic (designed for low frequency replication) is usually fatter, warmer, and has more bottom than a direct signal, but used alone it may take a bit more work to get the presence of a direct signal.
When I am mixing concerts I always insist on both a direct box and a mic. My favorite mic being a Shure Beta 52. I get the bottom end of my mix with the kick drum and bass mic. I use the direct signal for the mid/top end of the bass sound to get it cutting thru the mix, and for bass solos to get the sound jumping out and in your face.
Sorry this is so long and probably may have made you more indecisive on your choice, but it is not a cut and dry answer. Hopefully this will give you some more insight and help you decide. Of course if you are running into a PA system, it comes down to the room, the quality of the PA system and the engineer's ears and skill level.
I think a majority of bassists use a DI but if you REALLY like the sound coming out of your cabinets, mic it up cuz that's what you're going to get! (for the most part)
I like to take advantage of DI'ing and mic'ing when recording and then layering them together to get a stereo effect. It sounds kinda 70's transistor radio-ish but with a lot more low end punch.
I like to take advantage of DI'ing and mic'ing when recording and then layering them together to get a stereo effect. It sounds kinda 70's transistor radio-ish but with a lot more low end punch.
Spazmed, you asked what mics i like for bass? I think this is totally up to personal preference. Unlike a DI which, compared to mics, basically sound the same. ALOT of people will argue this, and they are right to a point, but the DI makes much less of a difference than the pre your running it into or a different microphone. I usually run my bass 3 places when recording, i ALWAYS DI it. This may sound like I contradicted myself but I am a big fan or reamping, and kinda a pessimst(sp?). I rarely use the Direct signal but i like to have it there as a backup. I usually use a good dynamic and a good condensor. I really like a large diaphram tube mic for the condensor, like i use a rode k2 or a mojave ma-200. I put them a few feet back in what i think is the sweet spot. I also will put some sort of dynamic right up on the speaker. I have found to get the sound i want i even have to take the grill off to get it very close to the speaker. I use a akg d112, but also a EV-re20, an audix d6, or basically anything used for a kick is good. This is all personal preference but i do have a degree in this stuff so im not like a total beginner. I am mainly a rock type bassist. A jazz kat is gonna do something totally different, probably a DI cuz its smoother and more controlled. You have to love the sound of your amp to wanna mic it in the first place. I have a big ampeg stack. A DI sounds weak in comparison. If you have a super clean amp micing it may not make a huge difference.
rdmjazz thanks for the in-depth reply! I have found that whether or not I use Pre or post really depends on how much I like the actual bass I am using. In other words, if I am using a bass that has a great preamp then I'll go Pre. Othewise I go post as well. Any suggestions on direct box to purchase?
I've recently been recording my bass in the studio and I've found my Sansamp RBI to sound, in a word, FREAKING AWESOME. I've tried micing my bass, and I've used a half dozen different DI's - but man, the sound I can dial in with that RBI is amazing.
The Sansamp RBI works great for pristine, clean sounds. I've played about six different basses through it, and when recording I keep the drive and presence knobs all the way off, and the three EQ knobs at 12 o'clock. Practically perfect sound everytime. For live, I might pump up the mids a bit, lower the bass depending on the room acoustics. I'm playing through an Acme Low B cabinet, by the way. Very accurate.
Before you buy a $300-400 mic, I'd say try the $300 RBI first. You'll get way more tonal variety out of it than with just one mic. And the RBI is also pre/post EQ switchable for the direct out.
And before anyone else says it - the Sansamp RBI isn't just a one trick pony. It can do way more than just sound like a 'mic'd up Ampeg rig', which is what most people seem to think is all it can do. In fact, I've found that a mic'd up Ampeg SVT rig sounds a lot muddier and less punchy than the Sansamp when it is set to the SVT mode.
As usual, this is just my $.02.
The Sansamp RBI works great for pristine, clean sounds. I've played about six different basses through it, and when recording I keep the drive and presence knobs all the way off, and the three EQ knobs at 12 o'clock. Practically perfect sound everytime. For live, I might pump up the mids a bit, lower the bass depending on the room acoustics. I'm playing through an Acme Low B cabinet, by the way. Very accurate.
Before you buy a $300-400 mic, I'd say try the $300 RBI first. You'll get way more tonal variety out of it than with just one mic. And the RBI is also pre/post EQ switchable for the direct out.
And before anyone else says it - the Sansamp RBI isn't just a one trick pony. It can do way more than just sound like a 'mic'd up Ampeg rig', which is what most people seem to think is all it can do. In fact, I've found that a mic'd up Ampeg SVT rig sounds a lot muddier and less punchy than the Sansamp when it is set to the SVT mode.
As usual, this is just my $.02.
I have an overdriven sound and i always try to talk the soundguy into micing my cabs, if he refuses to mic i use my SansAmp BDDI witch is the only distorted/overdriven sound that works lined IMHO.
I have to say that if you have a decent amp micing ALWAYS gets you a better sound and doing both is best of all, its just a bit more of a hassle to mic.
I have to say that if you have a decent amp micing ALWAYS gets you a better sound and doing both is best of all, its just a bit more of a hassle to mic.
lamar's got it.
keep in mind that another mic onstage equals more chance for feedback. live engineers LOVE to reduce feedback, so DI wins almost every time. this is coming from a realistic perspective on FOH, monitor duties and live sound in general.
as a bass player, i would hands down want my amp mic'd if possible. i prefer the sound, as that is my I bought the amp to begin with. in the studio, i am very unhappy if my amp is not mic'd up -- there's really no substitute for the sound coming from a good set of speakers.
live and learn. try it both ways, and ALWAYS make sure the sound guy is happy. he/she can make you look/sound very very bad.
as far as mics go, the Shure Beta 52 is very very good for the price. the sennheiser MD421 is great (i'm using it right now in a session). those two come to mind as standards. mics come in lots of flavors, though.
nick
keep in mind that another mic onstage equals more chance for feedback. live engineers LOVE to reduce feedback, so DI wins almost every time. this is coming from a realistic perspective on FOH, monitor duties and live sound in general.
as a bass player, i would hands down want my amp mic'd if possible. i prefer the sound, as that is my I bought the amp to begin with. in the studio, i am very unhappy if my amp is not mic'd up -- there's really no substitute for the sound coming from a good set of speakers.
live and learn. try it both ways, and ALWAYS make sure the sound guy is happy. he/she can make you look/sound very very bad.
as far as mics go, the Shure Beta 52 is very very good for the price. the sennheiser MD421 is great (i'm using it right now in a session). those two come to mind as standards. mics come in lots of flavors, though.
nick
Tracking multiple signal sources into discrete channels provides more flexiblity during mixdown. On mixdown, you can send as much or little of either the D.I. or mic'd signals as you like depending on your mood and requirements of the song.
For electric bass, I take a D.I. signal from my David Eden amp into one channel, and a mic'd signal into another -- usually with a Sennheiser MD 421 II dynamic mic. That mic is placed off-axis about 12 inches from the grill; the angle provides a slightly fuller sound. I have done systematic test recordings from 1/2 inch, 3 inches, 6", 9", etc. up to 24" and liked the 12 inch position best. The mic'd signal runs through an ART Tube preamp. Signals from both D.I. and the mic/preamp go through a dbx 266XL compressor/gate before moving on to the recording medium. I've also used an AKG Perception 400 large diaphram condenser mic, which provides a more vintage sound.
Either way, the question should not be either or -- whenever possible, do both!
For electric bass, I take a D.I. signal from my David Eden amp into one channel, and a mic'd signal into another -- usually with a Sennheiser MD 421 II dynamic mic. That mic is placed off-axis about 12 inches from the grill; the angle provides a slightly fuller sound. I have done systematic test recordings from 1/2 inch, 3 inches, 6", 9", etc. up to 24" and liked the 12 inch position best. The mic'd signal runs through an ART Tube preamp. Signals from both D.I. and the mic/preamp go through a dbx 266XL compressor/gate before moving on to the recording medium. I've also used an AKG Perception 400 large diaphram condenser mic, which provides a more vintage sound.
Either way, the question should not be either or -- whenever possible, do both!
For recording, DI then re-amp if wanted. (Re-amp = play back the track through an amp while you record it on another channel.)
But you can get a really good sound from just VST plugins these days. YMMV
For live - I don't like mics. When they point the mic at the speaker it picks up reflected sounds. It's no longer directional, it's omni. So piano, guitar, drums, all leak into it. Then they turn the bass down when they meant to turn down the piano.
But you can get a really good sound from just VST plugins these days. YMMV
For live - I don't like mics. When they point the mic at the speaker it picks up reflected sounds. It's no longer directional, it's omni. So piano, guitar, drums, all leak into it. Then they turn the bass down when they meant to turn down the piano.
+1 on everything
When you're in a studio , in a DI , the sound you hear in the studio reference IS the sound you have. A good way to develop a nice tone and an equal playing ( without compressor! ) is by practicing in those type of boxes or through a mixer/headphone combo. If you always play through your bass amp , you'll get used to that sound as being YOUR sound wich isn't true IMO, because bass amp doesn't reproduce the full range equally. You'll have more lowend and no top end.
That's why some players have really big surprise when they hear their sound from the DI the first time!
but that's my opinion......
Equipement wise :
Any Radial DI exept the "pro" series is good
Best I've heard : Summit Audio TD100 ( I bought one! )
A good all around mic +1 for 421 and I really like the ATM25.
