How do people answer the OP without knowing his situation? Is this a guy in a bedroom, a session player, an aspiring touring pro? I have no idea how to answer it.
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Do I need a 5?
- Thread starter Lepparda
- Start date
This seem to be the everlasting topic on talkbass..
It more or less comes down to the D or E# note on the A string not being fat enough. A band with a baritenor singer will often end up in chords with the root in white keys (C,D,E,F,G,A,H,C). The C2 note on the A string on songs in C-major seem fairly ok but with ballads in D-minor that D2 on the A string is a bit lacking, and probably where the 5 string seem to give you that fat low root in the ballads filling the sonic space with fatness..
With a deeper baritone singer you will often end up in black keys as the root, and need a low E# on the rock stuff when you do the classic rock tracks in E#,G#,C# instead of E,A,D. So downtuning all strings a half note to E-flat standard is very common with a male singer with a slightly deeper voice than the light baritone or baritenor...
Oh no,,, do not read any further,, If you allready associate 432Hz tuning to hippies, nutballs and crystals,,, but for live performance I have a strong opinion about the modern pitch..
But I know I am gonna sound like a broken record,, I find that for live singing in a rock band where you sing in very high keys in relation to your vocal fach (compared to classical and choir music) to get "that sound" a detune to Verdis A4=432Hz (-31.8 cents) is a god-send. All the notes in the 12 tone scale in the middle to high part of my voice line up better at 432Hz than either at 440Hz or the usual 100 cents downtune to G#4=415.3Hz. And I do not care for all the mumbo jumbo new age stuff around 432Hz,,
Vocally in the throat there is a big difference between 440Hz and 432Hz tuning and the difference at -31.8 cents is not enough to throw me of. A C-major chord at 432Hz tuning is just a relaxed fat sounding C. Going beyond ~1/3 down or more than -35 cents down (431Hz) of a seminote and it starts getting too far away from an A4 to my ears.
Sometimes you discover songs outside 440Hz. DAD's sleeping my day away is one.. I think the pitch of that song is roughly 1/3 down of standard A#4 or close to 457Hz. Funny though is that later I heard a live clip and they were at 445Hz or 19.6 cents sharp of A (slightly deeper than the studio version) and the singer was struggling..They probably thought that 445Hz tuning is close and can be reached with most pedal tuners.. No surprise to me he was struggling,, the tuning region of A4=440Hz to A4=445Hz has a funky placement and make most male singers sound like crap in a live performance.. Its not even a large downtune that has a positive effect. Going down form 440hz to 437Hz (-11.84 cents) makes a big difference to me..
A standard 4 string bass tuned down from 440Hz to 432Hz (-31.8 cents) has this very nice fat sounding thing about it without going into regular e-flat mode.
It more or less comes down to the D or E# note on the A string not being fat enough. A band with a baritenor singer will often end up in chords with the root in white keys (C,D,E,F,G,A,H,C). The C2 note on the A string on songs in C-major seem fairly ok but with ballads in D-minor that D2 on the A string is a bit lacking, and probably where the 5 string seem to give you that fat low root in the ballads filling the sonic space with fatness..
With a deeper baritone singer you will often end up in black keys as the root, and need a low E# on the rock stuff when you do the classic rock tracks in E#,G#,C# instead of E,A,D. So downtuning all strings a half note to E-flat standard is very common with a male singer with a slightly deeper voice than the light baritone or baritenor...
Oh no,,, do not read any further,, If you allready associate 432Hz tuning to hippies, nutballs and crystals,,, but for live performance I have a strong opinion about the modern pitch..
But I know I am gonna sound like a broken record,, I find that for live singing in a rock band where you sing in very high keys in relation to your vocal fach (compared to classical and choir music) to get "that sound" a detune to Verdis A4=432Hz (-31.8 cents) is a god-send. All the notes in the 12 tone scale in the middle to high part of my voice line up better at 432Hz than either at 440Hz or the usual 100 cents downtune to G#4=415.3Hz. And I do not care for all the mumbo jumbo new age stuff around 432Hz,,
Vocally in the throat there is a big difference between 440Hz and 432Hz tuning and the difference at -31.8 cents is not enough to throw me of. A C-major chord at 432Hz tuning is just a relaxed fat sounding C. Going beyond ~1/3 down or more than -35 cents down (431Hz) of a seminote and it starts getting too far away from an A4 to my ears.
Sometimes you discover songs outside 440Hz. DAD's sleeping my day away is one.. I think the pitch of that song is roughly 1/3 down of standard A#4 or close to 457Hz. Funny though is that later I heard a live clip and they were at 445Hz or 19.6 cents sharp of A (slightly deeper than the studio version) and the singer was struggling..They probably thought that 445Hz tuning is close and can be reached with most pedal tuners.. No surprise to me he was struggling,, the tuning region of A4=440Hz to A4=445Hz has a funky placement and make most male singers sound like crap in a live performance.. Its not even a large downtune that has a positive effect. Going down form 440hz to 437Hz (-11.84 cents) makes a big difference to me..
A standard 4 string bass tuned down from 440Hz to 432Hz (-31.8 cents) has this very nice fat sounding thing about it without going into regular e-flat mode.
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I went straight to a 5. A 5 can do everything a 4 can, then more without re-tuning. If you plan on playing modern rock or metal covers with tunings from E to A, the extra range might come in handy.
I mainly went 5 for that and because coming from guitar I knew how much of a pain it was trying to go from 6 to 7. It was frustrating for me to learn how to play all my old songs because I had to attack the E string differently with that B in the way. So when I made the switch to bass I went straight to 5 to avoid the relearning curve.
I mainly went 5 for that and because coming from guitar I knew how much of a pain it was trying to go from 6 to 7. It was frustrating for me to learn how to play all my old songs because I had to attack the E string differently with that B in the way. So when I made the switch to bass I went straight to 5 to avoid the relearning curve.
I'm not sure if if needs to be black and white. If you're curious about playing a five string then get one and check it out.
If it isn't your thing you can always trade or sell it on later.
If it isn't your thing you can always trade or sell it on later.
Every ones got a different take on this, only you know what you need. Try some and find out if its your thing. I tried , it wasn't. Your needs may vary
I'll make it really easy for OP.
Whenever the questions is "Do I need a _______ bass" then the answer is YES!
Do I need a 4-string bass?
Do I need a 5-string bass?
Do I need a P-bass?
Do I need a Jazz-bass?
Do I need a torted bass?
Do I need a natural finish bass?
Do I need a black bass?
Do I need a white bass?
Do I need a red bass?
Do I need a short scale bass?
Do I need a fretless bass?
Do I need a double bass?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, YES, YES, YES!
Whenever the questions is "Do I need a _______ bass" then the answer is YES!
Do I need a 4-string bass?
Do I need a 5-string bass?
Do I need a P-bass?
Do I need a Jazz-bass?
Do I need a torted bass?
Do I need a natural finish bass?
Do I need a black bass?
Do I need a white bass?
Do I need a red bass?
Do I need a short scale bass?
Do I need a fretless bass?
Do I need a double bass?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, YES, YES, YES!
I suppose it depends on your metrics, but I would be hard pressed not to put Anthony Jackson, Les Claypool, and Nathan East on the same list with Stanley, Marcus, Jaco, etc. AJ is a pioneer of the extended range instrument, and is on a ton of iconic studio tracks (e.g. For the Love of Money). Claypool inspired a whole generation of players and is unmistakable when you hear him. And Nathan East has played on more hit records than almost every other bass player out there, except maybe Chuck Rainey (who also plays both 4 and 5) and Motown/Wrecking Crew guys.
Your list is also mostly players who came up in the 70's when there really weren't viable 5-strings around. Many of the guys on the first list are younger (except Lesh) and built on the foundation that others put down.
I've seen Victor Wooten play 5-string live multiple times. As well as guitar. And keys.
Ultimately, while I'm a big fan of BEAD tuning, you have to do what's good for you.
Do you "need" a five? No. But since when is it about need? If you have the money for a nice bass that's a five string, and you want it, get it.
Life is short.
Do you "need" a five? No. But since when is it about need? If you have the money for a nice bass that's a five string, and you want it, get it.
Life is short.
- Aug 3, 2007
- 1,678
- 2,146
- Disclosures
- Current: Blackstar, DR strings, Nady. Previous endorsements with: GK, Rotosound, Ernie Ball, Cleartone, EMG, Dean, Dava Picks, Rebel Straps, Dickies
I started with 4 strings, never had any inclination to switch to 5 strings, even when I played in drop C or B. Fast forward, last year I ran across a deal for a 5 string that was too good to pass up. I use the low B maybe, 5% of the time. It gives me more choice, but it's usually the easy way out, as opposed to getting more creative using a 4.
There's no golden rule that says choose one or the other.
There's no golden rule that says choose one or the other.
you dont NEED a 5. The question is whether or not you want one.
Ok so this thread inspired me to go down to GC and play a 5 string again, been many years since I've played one. Actually found a few things I liked. First off, I could use the B sting as a thumb rest. One of the main reasons I love my Fender P Junior so much is that the pick guard sits perfectly to rest my thumb on the edge. Second, I play the E string quite often and sometimes when I'm on it a lot or doing quick runs up/down to it, I get way to close to bending or pushing it off the fretboard. No worries when playing the E on a 5 string. I play SS and sub shorts exclusively, so 5 strings are pretty few and far between. I might check out that Ibanez Mikro 5 string. Played the full sized version of it today. Good thread!
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Absolutely worth a try. Go to GC (if you can) and try a 5 string Ibanez if they have one. Most of the cheaper ones still have decent necks that are thin and easy for the 4 string player to try. I learned on 4 strings but now have 5, 5 string basses and am looking for a 4 string just to have. Most of the modern songs I play have the lower notes that a decent / high quality 5er can achieve. Nothing beats an old school 4 string Jazz or P-Bass in many cases but a solid 5er can get you through most gigs. I do a lot of sub work and a 5 string can usually cover most of the work. My 2 cents and good luck.
Ive been back and forth so many times its not funny. But I am a 4 string player at heart and agree that D tuner is the most I will ever need. Though right now all I do is just tune down to drop D when needed. We only do a couple songs where its needed
I just got a 5-string last year and I don't think I'll ever go back to 4 unless I play in another punk band/a tribute that needs that look. Bought a cheapie 5er from a friend for $300 and almost immediately bought a German Warwick!
