Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Do I need a DI Box?
- Thread starter kyral210
- Start date
It really depends who is mixing FOH. If they work for your band you may have success with a sound you make via your helix. They still likely want a dry DI as well.
If you don’t know them and they work for a club or are mixing a festival they will definitely strongly prefer a dry DI. If you talk to them and they have the inputs they might try your wet signal. If it was me mixing I’d try your helix line and use it if it worked in the mix without too much struggle. I actually usually mic’d bass amps esp if the player uses fx as part of their sound.
If you don’t know them and they work for a club or are mixing a festival they will definitely strongly prefer a dry DI. If you talk to them and they have the inputs they might try your wet signal. If it was me mixing I’d try your helix line and use it if it worked in the mix without too much struggle. I actually usually mic’d bass amps esp if the player uses fx as part of their sound.
Thanks. I have an active EQ preamp in my bass, so you recommend active or passive DI?
You don't need a DI since the Helix has a mono XLR output and performs full amp modeling. The Helix is your entire sound. This is assuming you don't use an amp on stage and only bring your Helix. If you use an amp on stage, you can send either the Helix XLR out, amp XLR out, or both if they want options.
You don't have to send a dry sound is what i am saying. But it depends on what you want the audience to hear. If i cultivated a wet sound with a Helix then that is what i want to send.
If they sound folks want a clean di signal they usually will have a DI. At least in club world. I wouldn’t expect to bring one.
I used to insist on being mic’d and most sound crews would do it, and take a DI. If you didn’t hire them they are going to do whatever they think will sound best.
I used to insist on being mic’d and most sound crews would do it, and take a DI. If you didn’t hire them they are going to do whatever they think will sound best.
Last edited:
s0c9
Supporting Member
As a sound guy.. I generally accept whatever DI feed I get from the guitars "gods" on stage.
For bass (had a discussion on this w/ my guitar player after last nights gig) about what stomp pedals he had vs a former bassist he worked used to have!
I will take a DI feed from pedalboard or amp and only use a separate DI if the tone is.... well sux!
For typical bass use - unless the music is highly stylized, the pro's I work with have bare bones bass feeds. No delays, reverbs, occasionally some grit/grunge.. but not much more.
For example, I have Cali 76 comp, chorus pedal and Khan DI. House sound guy last 3 nights (Midas M32 board) was over the moon about the Khan feed.
I don't even bring an amp. I'm 100% IEM so no need.
For bass (had a discussion on this w/ my guitar player after last nights gig) about what stomp pedals he had vs a former bassist he worked used to have!
I will take a DI feed from pedalboard or amp and only use a separate DI if the tone is.... well sux!
For typical bass use - unless the music is highly stylized, the pro's I work with have bare bones bass feeds. No delays, reverbs, occasionally some grit/grunge.. but not much more.
For example, I have Cali 76 comp, chorus pedal and Khan DI. House sound guy last 3 nights (Midas M32 board) was over the moon about the Khan feed.
I don't even bring an amp. I'm 100% IEM so no need.
As a bass player and a sound guy I would use whatever the player wants as long as it doesn’t compromise the system’s safety (a sound tech’s other job besides reinforcing the band). If you are sending a bunch of octave down super high dynamic spew I am going to high pass, limit, and otherwise render it useable.
this is more likely from noise bands and Japanese synth extremists. I really don’t recall any especially crazy bass signals. I might not like the content but I didn’t have to to do my job well.
this is more likely from noise bands and Japanese synth extremists. I really don’t recall any especially crazy bass signals. I might not like the content but I didn’t have to to do my job well.
You don't have to send them a clean DI if the Helix is your tone. You don't need to own a clean DI, as most the venues will have it.
My signal chain is:
Compression > Darkglass B7K ultra sim > ampeg SVT IR > compression
No fancy delay or reverb. I would love this all in pedal form but the helix keeps it simple and affordable.
s0c9
Supporting Member
If you handed me an XLR from your Helix.. I'm good with that!
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
While I have played live for years and think I know what I’m doing, I’m always questioning myself and trying to push my knowledge forward. Currently I’m obsessed with trying to get a studio quality tone work my helix to push out to FOH and make the sound engineers life easier.
I'm never sending a clean DI to FOH, and I'm not using an amp. So always XLR out of my Eleven Rack, or HX Effects (sometime I'm using a Radial Stagebug SB_2), or Ampeg SCR-DI, depending of the gig.
I suggest setting your modeling sound in Helix at live gig level, if not already done. Specially checking for too much low frequency content.
I suggest setting your modeling sound in Helix at live gig level, if not already done. Specially checking for too much low frequency content.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,978
- 5
- 220,738
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Agreed, the Helix is an all in one solution provided you program it appropriately. Adding a dry DI signal compounds other problems that can create much more serious issues when combined with the processed signal because of the latency present in the digital processing.If you handed me an XLR from your Helix.. I'm good with that!
This is an example of where the simpler approach is almost always going to produce better results.
If no amp on stage... you can split and send a dry and a wet from the Helix no ?
As for adding a DI... Active bass, passive DI and the inverse. If you do small community, county fair festival type gigs it isn't a bad idea to have a good DI in your kit. Sound companies come in varying degress of sophistication out in the sticks... Being able to slap a JDI or J48 down just might be the ticket...
As for adding a DI... Active bass, passive DI and the inverse. If you do small community, county fair festival type gigs it isn't a bad idea to have a good DI in your kit. Sound companies come in varying degress of sophistication out in the sticks... Being able to slap a JDI or J48 down just might be the ticket...
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,978
- 5
- 220,738
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The Helix dry and wet sends should be latency compensated to work together.
Combining “outside the box” (no latency) with inside the box” (latency) will be an issue.
exactly: you can use the helix with a DI with one of the built in outputs and the wet signal going out from another one (plenty of tutorial on youtube to program the helix this way, if you do so: no problem with latency issues), if you have the wet signal from the helix and a DI box pre helix in your chain it could be you'll have latency issues, so no, you shouldn't waste money in an external DI box, you can do everything with what you have now
I was thinking to DI from the Helix, wet and dry sides and carrying the J48 - which could be a stereo one - as a buffer against some 'back woods' skeptical sound guys. As a sound guy, I'm all over modelers. In the last couple of years I've seen a bunch and in general they sound great - when they don't itiis usually due to pilot error on the other side of the cable. Massive jumps in volume or EQ or really extreme compressor settings between patches.
As the Perrelli add said, 'with great power comes great responsibility'.
I'm an HX Stomp user. My patches are well balanced and I could easily send a dry and wet. I don't... as my patches are balanced between wet and dry internally to the patch, I DI from the back of my Quilter Bass Block or from your superlative Genzler Magellan Analog Bass preamp these days.
Every once in a while I take an Ampeg PF-20T and use the OT based DI - which is damned good! Those gigs are generally my pedal board with the HX, wireless recievers and the Magellen Pre. Guild Starfire and MAS compact 15/6. In that case the Genzler is set flat and acts as a quick problem room eq solver and also my master vol. The HX is along for the ride but functions as a tuner. In the right spaces, that rig just drips tone.
Last edited:
