Do lightweight amps really sound different from the big iron heads?

[Jamiex]

Hey everyone,
I've been thinking about how much amp tech has changed. Class D heads are super convenient, but I still hear people swear that the old heavy amps (SVTs, GKs, etc.) just feel different in the mix.

Do you hear (or feel) a real difference in tone or punch, or is it mostly nostalgia and perception? Would love to hear from folks who've used both on stage.

Thanks

 

[31HZ]

Do I hear a difference between different amps that happen to have different power topologies? Yes, but it's much more likely to do with the preamp than the power section.

My back doesn't hear a difference

 

[JimChjones]

All amps sound different from each other, so its going to be a very subjective exercise. The question could be framed is there anything intrinsically different in all class D amps compared to all class A, AB, and class B amplifiers whether tube or solid state. Seems pretty unlikely doesn't it? Especially when you think about some of the poorer implementations of the old tech. When I moved from an old heavy as hell Fender BXR300 (SS) to a Class D Markbass, yes the sound was different of course, but I couldn't put my hand on my heart and say there was something intrinsically different that was common to all the Class D amps I tried before I got the MB. Not that I was listening for anything anyway. But then I've never really known what people mean by slam and punch, and the band I'm in doesn't require high volumes.

 

[Jamiex]

All amps sound different from each other, so its going to be a very subjective exercise. The question could be framed is there anything intrinsically different in all class D amps compared to all class A, AB, and class B amplifiers whether tube or solid state. Seems pretty unlikely doesn't it? Especially when you think about some of the poorer implementations of the old tech. When I moved from an old heavy as hell Fender BXR300 (SS) to a Class D Markbass, yes the sound was different of course, but I couldn't put my hand on my heart and say there was something intrinsically different that was common to all the Class D amps I tried before I got the MB. Not that I was listening for anything anyway. But then I've never really known what people mean by slam and punch, and the band I'm in doesn't require high volumes.

Yeah, totally agree, it really comes down to the specific amp and how it's voiced, not the class itself. I've heard Class D amps with plenty of "punch," and others that felt a bit flat. Hard to generalize when every design's so different.

 

[Jamiex]

Do I hear a difference between different amps that happen to have different power topologies? Yes, but it's much more likely to do with the preamp than the power section.

My back doesn't hear a difference

Exactly! The preamp definitely does most of the "talking," and the power section is just along for the ride. Glad I'm not the only one whose back hasn't noticed a difference!

 

[Pilgrim]

If I hear any difference - and I'm not always sure that I do - I'm confident that the audience can't when I'm playing in a mix. I've never been in a room with any amp in which I was unable to get a sound I liked.

 

[lomo]

When it comes to amps and basses, heavier does not = better sounding. Weight and tone are independent variables.

 

[agedhorse]

Amps sound and feel exactly as the designer intends.

Any limitations (or differences) are either due to intent or the designer's own limitations.

 

[J Wilson]

SURE they do.

 

[J Wilson]

NO they don't.

 

[bassbrad]

IMHO Yes but it is more complex than big iron vs digital power as both have their plus and minus sides. While the power section does have some influence on the result the preamp and speakers come more significantly into play.

 

[MVE]

I have A/B'd my Demeter/Berg rig right next to a vintage SVT/810 during full band rehearsal and myself and everyone in my band preferred the Demeter.
Thats not to say, everyone is going to agree with me, but my class D amp works great for me.

 

[Hawk620]

It's been a long time since I played an amp with heavy iron and back then we needed that kind of power in an amp to drive low end through less efficient speakers and cabs when playing larger venues. The PA was strictly for the vocals in those days. I've played SS amps since the '80s.

I've never felt my rigs ever lacked any ability to sound punchy or put out enough bottom end especially as speakers and cabs became more efficient. I've played a smaller 175w head through a single 15". An analog SS 400w bi-amped rig through 2x10 and 2x15 cabs, a 350w hybrid tube/SS rig through a 4x10 cab, and 500w and 750w Class D heads through a 1x12 and 2x12 cab. They all did whatever was asked of them.

Two years ago I moved into a 2nd floor space in a building with no elevator and I was not about to carry a 53lb 2x12 cab up or down 22 steps. So I sold all of that last rig heads and speakers and bought a Genzler MG350 Combo and a BA110-2-S2 extension cab. It's a Class D amp and as small and light (32lbs total) as it is it's output belies it's size. It's also the best sounding rig I've ever owned.

 

[Igotsoul4u]

I tend to think lightweight cabinets and speakers might be more impactful on the overall tone then class D heads.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Generalizing about class d heads is like generalizing about speaker size.

 

[Ellery]

My experience has been that I was able to achieve a satisfactory tone with a class D amp. I did have to stack a preamp pedal in front but ultimately what came out of the speaker cabinets washed away my long-lived GAS for an all-tube head.

 

[ultra60]

Do you hear (or feel) a real difference in tone or punch, or is it mostly nostalgia and perception? Would love to hear from folks who've used both on stage.

I own a GK Fusion 550 and a MB Fusion, the head that I believe was supposed to replace the 550 . The MB Fusion is a great head. It is one of the best sounding class D heads I have owned. It is full sounding, and I can get just the right amount of grit out of it. I like it so much that I parted with my 700RB after thinking I would never sell it. I did this as I needed a light weight backup to the 550.

As great as the MB Fusion sounds, I prefer the sound of the Fusion 550. While the heads sound very similar, the 550 packs a punch that the Fusion does not. This is with controls on each amp set the same. Sure, I can twist some knobs on the MB or engage the bass boost, and I get close.

I've owned quite a few class D heads and no, I don't think they sound as good as the old school amps. But I am old school. If I were starting out today and started on a class D head my perspective might be different.

 

[micguy]

I play ampless gigs, but I am heard through a bunch of class D heads, a couple line arrays, and a bunch of huge subs. By the time you pile up 50kW or more (the exact numbers depend on the place) with the right speakers, there's no bass amp that's gonna have the weight/slam/impact/whatever you want to call it of a great PA, even if all it's amps are class D.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

There was good big iron and not so good big iron.

No iron sounds the same.

 

[ryco]

Well, yes. My GK 800 Fusion sounds way different than my '70s Sunn 200s and Concert heads, or my '80s Peavey Mark III.

The older amps just sound like the basses running through them; of couse the 200s has the warm tubey distortion as one increases volume, along with bass and treble boost switches. The Concert is very transparent just having bass, mid, and treble controls, along with a bright channel and a mid boost switch. Wish these amps had gain + master volume, but they are what they are, which is powerful sweetness.
The Peavey having all kinds of EQ options with both rotary and 6 band slider, and a passive channel, and active channel featuring mid sweep controls = pretty versatile, but still pretty sterile - can sculpt out useable punchy sounds.

The new GK has all kinds of filter voicing on each band of EQ (low, mid low, mid hi, hi) so can go from very sterile to all kinds of color blends. Along with a more tubey channel which one can overdrive and sculpt at low volumes.

Love 'em all. The Peavey doesn't get used any more, but made a lot of money with her back in the day.