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Do you believe in life elsewhere?

#41
Bassman316 said:
You damn skimpy.

The universe is far too large to not have life other than on planet Earth. Whether it's simple life forms like bacteria or intelligent beings, they're out there.
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So you've seen aliens? Is that how you can say with 100% certainty that life is out there? Do you have pictures of these aliens, or perhaps video footage of them to share?

I think it's very statistically likely that life exists somewhere else in the universe. I don't think we have enough empirical evidence to warrant 100% certainty, though.

I remember reading something a while back about levels of civilizations. I could be off a good bit on this, but a level one civilization harnesses the energy used by processing fossil fuels. A level two civilization harnesses all the energy of its nearest star. A level three harnesses all the energy of its home galaxy, which is near unimaginable. But hey, there could be planets out there inhabited with life forms that are so far more advanced than the human race on Earth that it's hard to imagine it, too.
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Okay, so the only civilization we're 100% sure exists (us) is level 1. Where the flying **** did the other two levels come from, and are there any real-life examples of them that we know of? And where did you read about these "levels", anyway?
 
#43
Muaguana said:
So you've seen aliens? Is that how you can say with 100% certainty that life is out there? Do you have pictures of these aliens, or perhaps video footage of them to share?
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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but space is allegedly infinite. There really is no proof of this, yet it's accepted as fact. Perhaps, space is finite, and we simply haven't found the fringes of it yet.
 
#44
Muaguana said:
So you've seen aliens? Is that how you can say with 100% certainty that life is out there? Do you have pictures of these aliens, or perhaps video footage of them to share?

I think it's very statistically likely that life exists somewhere else in the universe. I don't think we have enough empirical evidence to warrant 100% certainty, though.
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Come on, of course I haven't seen aliens. The question here is whether you believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. "Life" doesn't mean green men zipping around in sliver saucer UFOs. We've uncovered traces of what looks like bacteria on Mars. And that's just next door. The universe is so farkin' huge that it's darn near an impossibility for life not to exist elsewhere.


As far as the levels of civilizations:
Kardashev scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I started thinking about the possibility of civilizations much more advanced than our own existing somewhere out there, I remembered briefly reading about this concept in a book, and looked it up. And, no, of course there's no real-life examples of the existence of higher-level civilizations. Don't you think we would have heard about it if we made contact with a lifeform or an entire civilization?
 
#45
cassanova said:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but space is allegedly infinite. There really is no proof of this, yet it's accepted as fact. Perhaps, space is finite, and we simply haven't found the fringes of it yet.
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First, I have no idea where that comment came from and have even less of a clue as to how it pertains to my post. Congrats on confusing me.

Secondly, no, space is not allegedly infinite; why do you think scientists keep shouting "THE UNIVERSE IS EXPANDING AT AN ACCELERATING RATE!" If you equate "space" with "the universe", simple substitution will give you "SPACE IS EXPANDING AT AN ACCELERATING RATE!" Which, of course, implies that space is, in fact, finite. As only something that has a finite volume can expand; something with infinite volume cannot expand beyond infinity, because the definition of infinity is a quantity without bound or end. Therefore, nothing can be greater or beyond it.
 
#46
Bassman316 said:
Come on, of course I haven't seen aliens. The question here is whether you believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. "Life" doesn't mean green men zipping around in sliver saucer UFOs. We've uncovered traces of what looks like bacteria on Mars. And that's just next door. The universe is so farkin' huge that it's darn near an impossibility for life not to exist elsewhere.
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And my point is that you made a declaration of absolute certainty for life to exist elsewhere. Belief is one thing, possessing certainty is another. And "darn near an impossibility" is not the same as "an impossibility."


As far as the levels of civilizations:
Kardashev scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I started thinking about the possibility of civilizations much more advanced than our own existing somewhere out there, I remembered briefly reading about this concept in a book, and looked it up. And, no, of course there's no real-life examples of the existence of higher-level civilizations. Don't you think we would have heard about it if we made contact with a lifeform or an entire civilization?
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So that levels of civilizations thing is bull****, by your own words (even the Wikipedia article called it "highly speculative" in its practical implications regarding real civilizations). Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
 
#47
Stop me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why cassanova said that "there really is no proof of this, yet it's accepted as fact"? I think the jist of that argument is that the universe is so immense that for all intents and purposes it's considered infinite. It's not like we're even going to be able to travel from one star to another anytime soon, and that's nothing!
 
#48
Bassman316 said:
Stop me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why cassanova said that "there really is no proof of this, yet it's accepted as fact"? I think the jist of that argument is that the universe is so immense that for all intents and purposes it's considered infinite. It's not like we're even going to be able to travel from one star to another anytime soon, and that's nothing!
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Probably accepted as fact by people who have little to no actual knowledge or experience of/in astrophysics. But if I had to choose between listening to a soccer mom or Neil Degrasse Tyson on whether or not the universe is infinite, I'd probably go with Tyson.
 
#49
I'd say there are several possible answers as to why we have yet to come across an advanced civilization.

If their civilization is more advanced than ours, maybe they use forms of communication we cannot even fathom, and therefore can't detect them.

Maybe it's because we can't even travel to our second nearest star, let alone any deep interstellar travel.

Maybe because it's the sheer size of the universe and how long it takes even light to cross a single galaxy, let alone hundreds or possibly thousands to reach us.
 
#50
Muaguana said:
And my point is that you made a declaration of absolute certainty for life to exist elsewhere. Belief is one thing, possessing certainty is another. And "darn near an impossibility" is not the same as "an impossibility."

So that levels of civilizations thing is bull****, by your own words (even the Wikipedia article called it "highly speculative" in its practical implications regarding real civilizations). Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
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Muaguana said:
Probably accepted as fact by people who have little to no actual knowledge or experience of/in astrophysics. But if I had to choose between listening to a soccer mom or Neil Degrasse Tyson on whether or not the universe is infinite, I'd probably go with Tyson.
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Is there a reason you're sounding mad?

My opinion? Life is out there. Get mad at me, too, if you want, but my opinion is that we aren't alone, no doubt about it. 99.99% is functionally 100%
 
#52
Defining life isn't that hard, really. Self replication is necessary and sufficient to be classed as "alive".

"Waste of space" considerations don't apply as there's no reason at all to assume that the universe has the purpose of sustaining life.

We simply don't have enough data to say whether there's life anywhere else or not.
 
#53
bassybill said:
We simply don't have enough data to say whether there's life anywhere else or not.
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Would you be shocked by the existence of life if it were discovered?


I would think it was great that we'd made the discovery, but it wouldn't be any great revelation that I couldn't wrap my head around.


If we should ever prove the existence of Santa Claus, I'm gonna be incredulous. If they discover fossils on Mars, I would have fewer doubts about it's validity.
 
#54
Phalex said:
Would you be shocked by the existence of life if it were discovered?


I would think it was great that we'd made the discovery, but it wouldn't be any great revelation that I couldn't wrap my head around.


If we should ever prove the existence of Santa Claus, I'm gonna be incredulous. If they discover fossils on Mars, I would have fewer doubts about it's validity.
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I'd be hugely excited. Shocked is perhaps the wrong word as at the moment we simply don't know one way or the other. Question is totally open. Statements about whether life is probable elsewhere or not are totally baseless - pure speculation.

On the other hand, Santa Claus would be a big surprise.
 
#57
Muaguana said:
And my point is that you made a declaration of absolute certainty for life to exist elsewhere. Belief is one thing, possessing certainty is another. And "darn near an impossibility" is not the same as "an impossibility."
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So are you though, by saying the universe is expanding. There's no proof that it is or isn't. They just speculate that it is or isn't. We don't have the means to measure the full extent of the universe, and until we do, then all one can do is speculate.
 
#58
Relic said:
Meh, I dont think it odd at all... I claim to "believe" not "know".
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To those who are epistemically rigorous, the two are equivalent. In other words, "I believe x" is equivalent to "I know x to be true". The slippery rationale behind why these two words are often misused touches upon matters which are not to be discussed here.

Put another way, as someone who is epistemically rigorous about what I do, and do not, accept as truth, I do not believe anything that I cannot know to be true. Thus, I do not (currently) believe that extraterrestrial life exists. That absence of belief is subject to change should sufficient evidence arise to justify such a belief.

dmonroe said:
I think it's the epitome of human arrogance to believe that we are the only intelligent life anywhere. Just given the small amount of the universe that we know of, not to mention all of the other parts we, as of yet have no clue about.
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Not really. Currently, that is exactly the belief that is rationally justified by the available evidence.

At present, the only intelligent life that we know of in the whole Universe is here on planet Earth. That is not to suggest, however, that Earth is necessarily somehow unique in any way, or that intelligent life could not exist elsewhere. In historical terms, we have just begun to search for extraterrestrial life. Life may in fact be abundant throughout the Universe, and could potentially be billions of years ahead of us in development.
 
#60
pica said:
When you think that our planet is just one of a possible billion in the Milky Way Galaxy, and that the Milky Way Galaxy is one of a possible hundred billion galaxies in the universe. Do you think that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Now when I say life I mean anything from a single-celled organism to a thinking being.
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I think it's highly likely that there's life elswhere in the universe, but there's no reason to believe it. In order for me to believe something, there has to be convincing evidence of it. At the moment, there is absolutely no evidence of life anywhere but on earth. So no, I don't believe it.
 

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