write every single note, for every instrument, and do they have assistants to help them? Just curious..
Regards to all
Regards to all
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Double Bass Does a composer (past and present)
- Thread starter Andy Mopley
- Start date
On a more serious side: a modern day composer use digital notation programs, and use assistants to proof read etc. In older days, composers just wrote the score, and copyists and engravers did the rest of the work. Some of the most active composers also had assistants (often students) to do the hard work.
Thanks - the context for the question was around some of the more puzzling notation seen for double bass and whether these are perhaps attributable to the people doing the hard work more so than the composer...
Here in Hollywood, it is very common, (and has been very common for decades), for "Ghostwriters/Orchestrators" to do the actual nutz and boltz work of Film Composition for many of the established film composers.
I have an "Orchestrator" friend who goes to movies with his wife and whispers "...I wrote that cue..." throughout the film, and then sees "Music by X........" as the end credits roll.
When Danny Elfman started in the Biz, he was known as as "The Hummer", as he would hum melodic fragments or ideas to his staff who would jot down the idea, and then magically turn out fully-formed scores for Orchestra.
Thanks.
From my experience, the people doing the hard work knows more than a lot of composers about proper notation.
One of the most extreme and controversial composers in this regard is Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988). Most of his compositions originated as improvisation or collages, recorded on tape, that an assistant had to transcribe and orchestrate.
According to someone who actually worked with him, Scelsi knew his pieces inside out, in every detail, despite having someone else do the ink.
According to someone who actually worked with him, Scelsi knew his pieces inside out, in every detail, despite having someone else do the ink.
In my experience, outside film and game scores where the timetable dictates a large team, serious classical composers never have anyone do anything but proofreading and parts.From my experience, the people doing the hard work knows more than a lot of composers about proper notation.
I have both engineered and played orchestral scores where a number of cues were outsourced to London where a team wrote overnight and dropped the files in an ftp the morning of the last session day due to the main team running behind.
For these sessions, it is not uncommon for the main composer to write just the melody and some instructions then having one of several orchestrators take care of the rest.
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I used to play a lot of big band jazz and always felt the bass lines on the charts were written by a piano player/ arranger - which makes perfect sense.
Have played quite a bit of big band jazz and standards, and the bass book was always obviously written by a pianist, most of the time as an afterthought.
As a published composer and arranger of hundreds of works (wind band, orchestral, jazz, chamber solos and ensembles, etc) I write every note for every instrument. I also edit my own scores and parts. I always have and I always will. I do have a some colleagues proof my scores and parts for readability (making sure notes are not to cramped together, symbols are clear, etc). I've been doing it the same way for nearly three decades. But, I also know of composers who only put the music in their notation software as a score and have others do all the part editing. It's cheaper for me to just do it on my own. Depending on the size of the work, I can finish all editing in a few hours, a day at the most.
I personally know a few big name film composers who only write or sketch their music in notation software and have others orchestrate it with their input or guidance. But, they are writing a lot of music in a short time frame and might be working on several projects at a time.
I personally know a few big name film composers who only write or sketch their music in notation software and have others orchestrate it with their input or guidance. But, they are writing a lot of music in a short time frame and might be working on several projects at a time.
Sammy Nestico once said "a decent bassplayer can play a better bassline than I can write". Still, his basslines always fits the music, and the Basie band were surprisingly true to his writing.
+1
I STILL remember Nestico charts from high school (84/85), and how enjoyable I thought the bass lines were compared to other stuff we were playing.
- Jan 24, 2002
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As you can already see from the above answers, it depends on the composer and what they're writing. The answer would be "yes" only in regards to what we consider "classical" composers (and maybe, perhaps, some musical theater composers?). Composers/song writers in most other genres aren't writing "fully realized" scores at all. Traditional songwriting is a melody (usually with lyrics) and some chord changes. That's it. Instrumentation, chord voicings, etc. are not typically included.
Early baroque composers didn't necessarily write every single note they wished to be played. There were plenty of ornamentations and so forth which were simply implied or assumed. You've probably seen bass continuo parts with figured bass notation -- those are essentially chords for the harpsichord to fill out as he likes. Not so different from a jazz piano lead sheet.
Traditional "classical" composers today are normally expected to do everything on their own. Those on contract with a large publishing firm can sometimes just send a handwritten manuscript to their editor. The piece would already be fully composed and notated, but the publisher will make a clean, printed score and set of parts on their behalf.
Plenty of composers are self-published, which means they also need to make their own parts and so on. They do 100% of the work.
Film composers at big Hollywood studios rather famously have a whole team of orchestrators to help them write as fast as possible. In some extreme cases, they might not actually compose much more than a few melodies or motifs and leave the rest to their assistants. These studios are on extremely tight and expensive schedules -- they simply don't have time for the traditional composition process.
Here is an example of how Hollywood (sometimes) works:
In 1997, the film "Air Force One" was released. About 4 weeks before the release date, "someone" decided that the (already completed & recorded) score sucked, and needed to be totally removed and replaced. This meant hiring a New Composer ( "...get Jerry Goldsmith on the phone!!!"), an army of "Orchestrators" & Copyists, contracting an orchestra, booking studio time, etc. My "orchestrator" friend was one of the "army", and, (working 'round the clock!), they DID compose/arrange, copy, record, and replace the WHOLE Music score in time for the release. As each new cue was completed, it was sent to the copyists, and then to the studio for recording.
There is NO Busine$$ like Show Busine$$.
Thanks.
In 1997, the film "Air Force One" was released. About 4 weeks before the release date, "someone" decided that the (already completed & recorded) score sucked, and needed to be totally removed and replaced. This meant hiring a New Composer ( "...get Jerry Goldsmith on the phone!!!"), an army of "Orchestrators" & Copyists, contracting an orchestra, booking studio time, etc. My "orchestrator" friend was one of the "army", and, (working 'round the clock!), they DID compose/arrange, copy, record, and replace the WHOLE Music score in time for the release. As each new cue was completed, it was sent to the copyists, and then to the studio for recording.
There is NO Busine$$ like Show Busine$$.
Thanks.
