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Does a good deal excuse a terrible seller?

#41
You’d be entitled to a full refund imo since he misrepresented the bass. I think you should definitely leave negative feedback.

If you can overlook the flaws in the bass, then yes that excuses the seller, in this instance. If not, you should have gotten a full refund.
 
#42
Just out of curiosity, does he have a lot of feedback here? A little?

I admire people here who say they wouldn't care if it showed up with six dings instead of one as long as it played well. That surely wouldn't be me.
 
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#43
I mean, six dings on a bass that was gigged for 20 years doesn't sound bad. It was probably dirty in the photos too, right? Strap buttons are an annoyance but an easy fix. I'd be pissed if PayPal issued a 10% judgment against me but I usually post the max allowed photos on my sales for guitars.

To answer your question: yes, I think a good deal does excuse a terrible seller.

Guess what I'm trying to say is don't buy 25 year old heavily used instruments if you don't want dings.
 
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#45
Buying basses over the internet is inherently risky. That's part of the deal.
Communication in a transaction is important and you lose so much information by reducing it to text only.
If the buyer is unhappy enough to reject an instrument someone has to eat shipping charges.

The seller is correct that the bass is "in great shape for 20 years." That's a disclaimer that should have been a red flag.
But if the OP asked about other cosmetic defects and the seller did not disclose then that's indeed fraud.

Sounds like you got burned a little because of the inherent risks you assumed. Caveat emptor applies here.
And the seller got burned a little because being called out on his fraud cost him 10% of his sale which is not insignificant.
...also potential negative feedback, which a mod has said is totally your right if you want to.

If you are otherwise happy with the instrument I'd say the deal is fair at this point. But only you can make that call. We can't
Be sure to check that truss rod though!

Also, don't forget that you learned a lesson here. That in itself has value.
 
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#46
Nev375 said:
Buying basses over the internet is inherently risky. That's part of the deal.
Communication in a transaction is important and you lose so much information by reducing it to text only.
If the buyer is unhappy enough to reject an instrument someone has to eat shipping charges.

The seller is correct that the bass is "in great shape for 20 years." That's a disclaimer that should have been a red flag.
But if the OP asked about other cosmetic defects and the seller did not disclose then that's indeed fraud.

Sounds like you got burned a little because of the inherent risks you assumed. Caveat emptor applies here.
And the seller got burned a little because being called out on his fraud cost him 10% of his sale which is not insignificant.
...also potential negative feedback, which a mod has said is totally your right if you want to.

If you are otherwise happy with the instrument I'd say the deal is fair at this point. But only you can make that call. We can't
Be sure to check that truss rod though!

Also, don't forget that you learned a lesson here. That in itself has value.
Click to expand...
This is an excellent point. If you feel with the 10% you've been adequately supplemented I would suggest at least nuetral feedback. Anything to call furutre buyers attention to the situation if you feel you were wrongs. And based on this post I think you feel burned. I know I would. At least you don't have to worry about smacking the bass off the cymbal stands..
 
#48
The title of your thread implies that you feel you got a good deal from a bad seller but your post seems to be more about questioning whether or not you actually got a good deal. Only you can answer that question. If you feel that you got a good deal, who cares if it was a bad seller. Be happy that you were able to get a bass that you like for a good price.
 
#50
I’ve received a few basses that weren’t exactly as described here on TB. Not enough to leave negative feedback though. It’s definitely not right to hold back on a description because you’re definition of an issue may not be the same as others. Full disclosure is always the best policy.
 
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#52
Definitely leave negative or neutral feedback if you don't want an argument. I've had a couple of sketchy transactions on here where things weren't quite right. I did not leave bad feedback out of fear of retaliation or harassment but in hindsight wish that I would have. If nothing more, it would clue future buyers into probing a little deeper before making a deal.
 
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#56
tradernick said:
I admire people here who say they wouldn't care if it showed up with six dings instead of one as long as it played well. That surely wouldn't be me.
Click to expand...

I’m one of them who doesn’t (usually) care. But it’s nothing to admire us for.

Most of us who are into used (and especially vintage) have conditioned ourselves to not let minor cosmetic issues bother us too much. Because they’re largely unavoidable in an older instrument that’s been played. So finding a minty creampuff instrument of vintage is often impossible. And with time you learn to not expect to find anything like that.

But “not caring” about dings isn’t the same thing as not minding dings. They just come with the turf. So if that’s something that bugs you, then the used marketplace is not your place to do biz.

I’m not going to comment on the specifics of the OP’s complaint as he aired it here.

However I will say that (IMO) if something arrived that’s not as advertised, it’s perfectly reasonable for you to do a return and expect to get a full refund. And further, that insulting and belligerent exchanges have no part in a business negotiation regardless of which side is making them or what instigated it. There are dispute resolution mechanisms and buyer/seller protections in place. Best bet is to use them. Resorting to the court of public opinion can be cathartic I suppose. But 200 people agreeing or disagreeing with you won’t get your money back from an iffy seller if you’re the buyer; nor protect you from an unscrupulous buyer if you’re the seller. So the wise thing is to promptly avail yourself of whatever protections are available should an amicable attempt at resolution go sideways.

————

Minor note about dings and similar cosmetic wear and tear…

I’ve come to prefer seeing a little wear on used stuff most times if it’s more than ten years old. At least that tells me there’s a good chance it’s been played regularly and hasn’t just been sitting in a closet or up in an attic somewhere completely untouched with the strings at full tension for the last 20 years. I’ve run into some catalog picture-pretty older gear that looks absolutely mint - but which had a severe neck twist or other showstopper issue (corroded pickup coils and pots, non-fixable frozen truss rod, etc.) that sometimes renders it useless for anything other than parts salvage or a studio wall ornament due to improper storage.

That’s been my experience anyway. YMMV.
 
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#57
40Hz said:
I’m one of them who doesn’t (usually) care. But it’s nothing to admire us for.

Most of us who are into used (and especially vintage) have conditioned ourselves to not let minor cosmetic issues bother us too much. Because they’re largely unavoidable in an older instrument that’s been played. So finding a minty creampuff instrument of vintage is often impossible. And with time you learn to not expect to find anything like that.

But “not caring” about dings isn’t the same thing as not minding dings. They just come with the turf. So if that’s something that bugs you, then the used marketplace is not your place to do biz.

I’m not going to comment on the specifics of the OP’s complaint as he aired it here.

However I will say that (IMO) if something arrived that’s not as advertised, it’s perfectly reasonable for you to do a return and expect to get a full refund. And further, that insulting and belligerent exchanges have no part in a business negotiation regardless of which side is making them or what instigated it. There are dispute resolution mechanisms and buyer/seller protections in place. Best bet is to use them. Resorting to the court of public opinion can be cathartic I suppose. But 200 people agreeing or disagreeing with you won’t get your money back from an iffy seller if you’re the buyer; nor protect you from an unscrupulous buyer if you’re the seller. So the wise thing is to promptly avail yourself of whatever protections are available should an amicable attempt at resolution go sideways.

————

Minor note about dings and similar cosmetic wear and tear…

I’ve come to prefer seeing a little wear on used stuff most times if it’s more than ten years old. At least that tells me there’s a good chance it’s been played regularly and hasn’t just been sitting in a closet or up in an attic somewhere completely untouched with the strings at full tension for the last 20 years. I’ve run into some catalog picture-pretty older gear that looks absolutely mint - but which had a severe neck twist or other showstopper issue (corrided pickup coils and pots, non-fixable frozen truss rod, etc.) that sometimes renders it useless for anything other than parts salvage or a studio wall ornament due to improper storage.

That’s been my experience anyway. YMMV.
Click to expand...
I tell people if the ding or issue will not bother you, don't worry about it.
But if you cant over look it or think you will be making excuses for it, don't buy it.
 
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