Mixed speakers and RH head and nobody is losing their mind yet? TB, who are you.
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Does this amp/cab combo make any sense?
- Thread starter ComicBass
- Start date
LOL...yeah like @honeyiscool says, "Where's the don't mix cabs group?"
Ok, I'll start it - The old 410 on top 115 on the bottom is less than an ideal match in many, but not ALL cases. Story goes that there can be significant sonic cancellation from different dispersion patterns and slightly different phase between the 10" speakers and the 15" speakers. It used to be the 15" speakers had the best low end. Now days, the 10" speakers can often give you lower and tighter bottom end. So the 115 shouldn't be an automatic, "I need that for the low end". It just doesn't hold water any longer.
Now, having said that, the old 410+115 combination can sound really good. I used to use an acoustic B410 and a GK115bpx that sounded great together. That may just be lucky though because they weren't specifically designed to be used together. Nonetheless, I gigged with that set-up for years and it worked quite well, especially after I got my Eden WT500/800 where I could hook each cab up to its own power channel and use the balance knob to balance out the sound between the two cabs. The GK115bpx is an extremely boomy cab and the acoustic B410, not so much.
You are much more likely to have good results with different cabs from the same manufacturer than you are by piecing them together like I did. I use an acoustic 410 on top of an acoustic 115 at our rehearsal space powered by an Eden WT600 amp and it sounds good. Not as good as my Eden WT500/800 into my DNS-410 cab, but still plenty good enough sound to gig with.
Most of the major manufacturers design their cabs to work together. One of the best "multiple cab combinations" I've heard was an Eden D212XLT with an Eden D210XST on the top - very complimentary sound from that combination. If you have questions about compatibility of speakers from specific manufacturers, don't be afraid to contact them and ask. If you have any questions about Mesa cabs compatibility, just ask @agedhorse here on TB. He designed the Mesa amps and cabs and is very upfront about what works best within his product line.
The nice thing about not mixing cabs with different speaker sizes is that 10" speakers with 10" speakers always sound good. 12" with 12" always sound good. There is no phase cancellation problems or any dispersion cancellation problems. It's possible to get a little bit I suppose when mixing cabs from different brands because the speakers aren't exactly the same, but the problems are minimal. So there's no question whether a 410+ 410 or a 210+410 will sound good.
So, that should satisfy, or at perhaps start that discussion about mixing cabs for this thread.
Ok, I'll start it - The old 410 on top 115 on the bottom is less than an ideal match in many, but not ALL cases. Story goes that there can be significant sonic cancellation from different dispersion patterns and slightly different phase between the 10" speakers and the 15" speakers. It used to be the 15" speakers had the best low end. Now days, the 10" speakers can often give you lower and tighter bottom end. So the 115 shouldn't be an automatic, "I need that for the low end". It just doesn't hold water any longer.
Now, having said that, the old 410+115 combination can sound really good. I used to use an acoustic B410 and a GK115bpx that sounded great together. That may just be lucky though because they weren't specifically designed to be used together. Nonetheless, I gigged with that set-up for years and it worked quite well, especially after I got my Eden WT500/800 where I could hook each cab up to its own power channel and use the balance knob to balance out the sound between the two cabs. The GK115bpx is an extremely boomy cab and the acoustic B410, not so much.
You are much more likely to have good results with different cabs from the same manufacturer than you are by piecing them together like I did. I use an acoustic 410 on top of an acoustic 115 at our rehearsal space powered by an Eden WT600 amp and it sounds good. Not as good as my Eden WT500/800 into my DNS-410 cab, but still plenty good enough sound to gig with.
Most of the major manufacturers design their cabs to work together. One of the best "multiple cab combinations" I've heard was an Eden D212XLT with an Eden D210XST on the top - very complimentary sound from that combination. If you have questions about compatibility of speakers from specific manufacturers, don't be afraid to contact them and ask. If you have any questions about Mesa cabs compatibility, just ask @agedhorse here on TB. He designed the Mesa amps and cabs and is very upfront about what works best within his product line.
The nice thing about not mixing cabs with different speaker sizes is that 10" speakers with 10" speakers always sound good. 12" with 12" always sound good. There is no phase cancellation problems or any dispersion cancellation problems. It's possible to get a little bit I suppose when mixing cabs from different brands because the speakers aren't exactly the same, but the problems are minimal. So there's no question whether a 410+ 410 or a 210+410 will sound good.
So, that should satisfy, or at perhaps start that discussion about mixing cabs for this thread.
Building on @Rip Van Dan's post I want to back up and ask O.P.: Why is it that you think of a 1x15 plus 4x10 as a "dream rig"? The usual answer to that question is the belief that you need the 15 for lows and the 10s for mids and highs, so the combination is ideal. This simply is not true of modern bass cabs: You can find just as many deep-sounding 2x10s and 4x10s and bright-sounding 1x15s as the other way around. I don't know anything about the cabs he's looking at -- they might be great as far as I know -- but I wouldn't recommend choosing a cab just because it seems to come closest to the 115+410 "dream rig." Instead, I would just look for cabs that you like the sound of -- whether they include 10s or 12s or 15s or something elsee -- and buy two of them if you need that much rig.
- Jul 7, 2010
- 3,383
- 2,311
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist for: Duncan Pickups; Line6, Hipshot, GHS Strings, Somnium Guitars
Personally I would go for this...but that is just me..TC amps overall are nice too.
Fender Bassman 500HD Head Black/Silver
Fender Bassman 500HD Head Black/Silver
Haha I also am referring to the fact that the TC RH is probably the most divisive amp in TB history. There are threads full of posters cursing TC and swearing off all their products for all of perpetuity because of the inflated power ratings. I just thought combine RH + mixed speakers and people would lose their mind. The TB of 2015 would. Y’all gone soft.
Honestly I feel like 12s are where it’s at. They’re physically quite ideal. One of them can often outperform a 210, two of them can keep up with a 410 and can be sort of a mini fridge, and they are not as big as 15s and can have much smaller cabinets. They’re really a great physical middle ground where size, weight, and power meet.
I owned a RH750 and gigged successful with it for over 2 years. Great amp. If I haven’t happened upon a SVT-CL at a great deal I would most likely still be using it. If you are sold on that cab I suggest getting it and trying the TC head on it for yourself. If it doesn’t fit your needs the shop for a head that will cover them. That’s what I would do anyway. The RH750 may pleasantly surprise you!
For me 10s are "where it's at" -- because a pair of vertically stacked 2x10s is ideal for my purposes. Four 10s gives me more than enough volume for my needs, but the ability to arrange them into a tall 4x10 array has lots of other advantages. A pair of 12s would probably be enough for my volume needs, but I love having some speakers up closer to my ears without needing a stand of some sort. On the other hand, a pair of 2x12's would be way more sound (and added weight and size) than I need.
Anyway, the point is that if you're going to talk about 10s vs 12s vs 15s, the main considerations should be the kinds of factors you and I are talking about rather than any (nonexistent, on average) tonal differences.
There is a lot of info on TB regarding why mixing a 1x15 with a 4x10 is generally a bad idea. Don't buy this combination until you understand the logic (hint: you risk blowing the 15!).
Lobster11, about why that was a "dream rig" for me... I play a lot with my 6 and 5 string basses and that low "B" string comes out brilliantly on my Peavey TNT 115. I always assumed it was because of the big 15" speaker. My only amp experience other than my Peavey was with little 12" and 10" combos, and on those the low B never came out right. Like the amps were struggling.
However having read all these responses I think that I had been wrong in my assumption. but IDK. I dont have any bassist friends, I don't particularly trust many of the stores where i live to really know there stuff. The stores here don't keep much bass stuff in stock so I'm forced to base my new amp/cab(s) purchase on internet searches and videos.
To be very honest, everytime I think I know what I want I find many people degrading the equipment or saying it is only good for one thing. I feel very lost as to what to get
However having read all these responses I think that I had been wrong in my assumption. but IDK. I dont have any bassist friends, I don't particularly trust many of the stores where i live to really know there stuff. The stores here don't keep much bass stuff in stock so I'm forced to base my new amp/cab(s) purchase on internet searches and videos.
To be very honest, everytime I think I know what I want I find many people degrading the equipment or saying it is only good for one thing. I feel very lost as to what to get
I'll second that. Also a personal recommendation from a WD-800 owner.
Light weight class D head with a tube preamp, sounds very tubey. Gets loud when you need it, also sounds great at lower volumes. Does have built-in HPF, excellent tone-sculpting capabilities, lots of useful features for practice and gigging. It is part of my dream rig: my dreams came true with that amp!
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I would try out both cabs, and see which you prefer. Start with one, and if you need more volume, get a second matching cab.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Note that driver size is mostly unrelated to anything but the driver's diameter. There are plenty of different 10" designs that do not work all that well together, same for 12's and 15's. Identical 10" designs will generally play well with each other, but there are so many possibilities when it comes to driver/design parameters that size by itself is not a good indicator of compatibility.
Dr. Thumpenstein, thank you for the recommendation, I will consider it.
Bulldog, I dont have the option to try out the Cabs where I live. Otherwise I certainly would.
Bulldog, I dont have the option to try out the Cabs where I live. Otherwise I certainly would.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
As others have suggested, do a search here on cab mixing. There are a couple of issues, including:
1. Mixed cabs may or may not play well together,
2. The 410 will be louder, so you have to be careful not to damage the 115.
I use a BBC 1012 Tank cabinet and power it with a Quilter Bass Block 800. Does great for my needs, handles my low B like a champ, plenty of bite in the upper end if I want it. Some say the Quilter is an acquired taste due to the eq controls, and some may not like the fact that it is entirely solid state. But for me, it works very well. Plenty of power even for the outside shows I do, and with a 36 pound cabinet (4 ohms) and a 4 pound head, it's easy for my beat up old body to pack around. I get a lot of positive comments from other bassists that hear it, and have played through it as well.
OP, if you thought your TNT 115 did justice to your B string, you're in for a real treat with just about any modern cabinet you buy.
For years I occupied the territory of not having a clue of what I needed gear-wise... and having ever-changing ideas about what I wanted. I would suggest you get a good combo amp and play with it for a bit. Also listen to pro bass players live and see what you like the sound of.
For years I occupied the territory of not having a clue of what I needed gear-wise... and having ever-changing ideas about what I wanted. I would suggest you get a good combo amp and play with it for a bit. Also listen to pro bass players live and see what you like the sound of.
I'm tired of having a combo... and there are very few concerts up here with pros. But I do go to the ones I can. Thanks for the suggestions though. All help is appreciated.
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Just putting this out there, a 4x10 plus a 1x15 driven from a nominal 750 watt head will potentially be loud AF......what is your band like that you need this much rig? If you don’t truly need this much volume, why saddle yourself with two trips to the car and 100 lbs of gear so you can run the gain and master at 1?
