That's a cool idea, helping those who are late to the party just get the point of they want to.
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"Dumbing Down" Set so Headliner Sounds Better
- Thread starter unbridled
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That's a cool idea, helping those who are late to the party just get the point of they want to.
Thanks. It's something I wish would catch on.That's a cool idea, helping those who are late to the party just get the point of they want to.
Addendum:
The headliner of the Friday show came to our gig last night in a little, cozy, 150 seat club we play about every six weeks or so. It's not a huge paying gig, but we do it because they have live music every Friday and Saturday, and we love that they are keeping live music alive.
Anyway, the headliner is flying to Nashville in two weeks to record some more tracks, but he came to our show (just him) and sat in for about ten songs. He was very cool and complimentary. The neat thing is that he sounded great with us. I offered honest complements, which were returned by him saying he was confident in our ability to pick up on his originals quickly.
I guess the moral of the story is that we all love to play and entertain folks, and owe it to everyone to give it our best.
The headliner of the Friday show came to our gig last night in a little, cozy, 150 seat club we play about every six weeks or so. It's not a huge paying gig, but we do it because they have live music every Friday and Saturday, and we love that they are keeping live music alive.
Anyway, the headliner is flying to Nashville in two weeks to record some more tracks, but he came to our show (just him) and sat in for about ten songs. He was very cool and complimentary. The neat thing is that he sounded great with us. I offered honest complements, which were returned by him saying he was confident in our ability to pick up on his originals quickly.
I guess the moral of the story is that we all love to play and entertain folks, and owe it to everyone to give it our best.
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Do that, but tell them that you did dial it back, as requested.
Always play your best. A killin' opening act inspires the main act to bring it up a notch.
I have ran sound for bands and play some pretty high energy, pre-recorded set break music. Many occasions a member of the band mentioned that the energy kept them up and inspired.
I have ran sound for bands and play some pretty high energy, pre-recorded set break music. Many occasions a member of the band mentioned that the energy kept them up and inspired.
As so many have said, you should absolutely play 120%!
I've had the pleasure several times of outshining a national headliner.
One of my old bands lined up a leg of a tour with the band Sponge and the on first night, we went crazy, jumping all around going through the crowd, and giving them a real show. People actually walked away from the stage that night when Sponge was playing. The other shows after that which we shared the stage with them, they had to put on a great show to try to outperform my band. It made for a better concert for the audience.
One of my other notable shows like that was in another band that opened for Psychostick. We played right before them and after we were done and packed up, we were hanging by the bar. There were so many people that hung back with us instead of by the stage because their performance was lackluster. They left the stage without any encores and literally left the venue right away. They didn't have another show for 4 days so there was no reason to not try to sell merch or something. They were known for mingling after they played.
I've had the pleasure several times of outshining a national headliner.
One of my old bands lined up a leg of a tour with the band Sponge and the on first night, we went crazy, jumping all around going through the crowd, and giving them a real show. People actually walked away from the stage that night when Sponge was playing. The other shows after that which we shared the stage with them, they had to put on a great show to try to outperform my band. It made for a better concert for the audience.
One of my other notable shows like that was in another band that opened for Psychostick. We played right before them and after we were done and packed up, we were hanging by the bar. There were so many people that hung back with us instead of by the stage because their performance was lackluster. They left the stage without any encores and literally left the venue right away. They didn't have another show for 4 days so there was no reason to not try to sell merch or something. They were known for mingling after they played.
Saw Oasis a few years back and JET opened the show and killed it! JET was fairly new here right about the time Are You Gonna Be My Girl was first hitting it big. I was throughly impressed with them and even thought they outplayed Oasis. Don’t hold back.... kill it!
I once saw Beer For Dolphins opening for Steve Vai.
As it happened, Mike Keneally was the second guitar player, and keyboard player in Vai's band.
Did BFD hold back? Nope.
Did Keneally play well for Vai? Yes. The parts where he was doubling Vai were insane.
If you're going to be a performer, then perform.
It's up to the public to determine which act is better.
As it happened, Mike Keneally was the second guitar player, and keyboard player in Vai's band.
Did BFD hold back? Nope.
Did Keneally play well for Vai? Yes. The parts where he was doubling Vai were insane.
If you're going to be a performer, then perform.
It's up to the public to determine which act is better.
In the main original band I played in late 70's we played Culver City Arena with opening for Steppenwolf (A come-back tour for them tho not all original members) and we blew the crowd away. They booed Steppenwolf and screaming for us to come back but the stage people/Stepp's manager unplugged power. We could not, of course, do another encore, and the tour we supposedly were to do with them---forget it. We were told they would not play with us again. The rest of the concert was a downer for the crowd so Stepp was really pissed. We could not have cared less.
Any time you play, as another responder here said---give it 100%. That is the professional thing to do. If the lead act can't cope, then tuff chips for them. Maybe they need to up their game.
In the end---don't bend over. (that's a pun
)
Any time you play, as another responder here said---give it 100%. That is the professional thing to do. If the lead act can't cope, then tuff chips for them. Maybe they need to up their game.
In the end---don't bend over. (that's a pun
)
F the headliner. If they can't keep up their end, that's their problem. If you want to be the headliner some day, you have to bring the fire every single time. I've wrecked the audience for the headliner a few times and never once felt bad about it. Actually, it felt pretty good.
Your band should play no different than you usually do .. if you blow the headliner away then tough titty for them.
When I was at school in Stoke, the older kids were going one night to see Black Sabbath. They came in next day raving about the support act called Van Halen; reckoned the guitarist blew Tony Iommi off stage. I wasn't there, so I don't believe it. Both bands managed to survive the awkwardness.
Just checked that I got the facts right. Googling "Van Halen supp" brought it up straight away. They must have done a very good opening in a lot of halls.
Just checked that I got the facts right. Googling "Van Halen supp" brought it up straight away. They must have done a very good opening in a lot of halls.
My Dad taught me to always be super nice to the sound guys and buy them drinks while setting up and during sound checks when I was 15 opening for adult acts in bars. Carried that trick on myself and always had great sound....And yes. Full on.hi unbridled
Yes!!!!!! This is rock & roll!
That said, you will probably not have the same sound and light as the headliner anyway.
(someone will take care of that)
So I say; Go!!!! Full energy! Rock the house as good as you can!
greetings
)
Wise(b)ass
So, you've soundchecked. The headliner has soundchecked. You go on stage to open for the headliner, middle of your set you realise or a friend in the audience signals to you that the sound is sh¡te — this has never happened to you before, you've always assumed it was a rumour or an excuse, now it is happening to YOU in the moment...
It's not something you choose to experience, but it happens and there's no way to prove it's happening 'cause if they're craptastic enough to pull that trick, they're certainly not of the moral-fibre to own up to it.
In this life, you can only hope to meet more good'ns than bad'ns, but you don't always get to call the shots in advance.
Ah, not so fast there, partner. Bad witch here. Okay, now I think I am finally beginning to see what’s going on. Which is, a lack of professionalism.
There are groups who are evidently playing venues big enough to warrant a sound company sufficient to make the headliner sound good, but these groups are evidently not taking steps to provide for themselves to sound good. I am merely trying to make the point that why even play the show then? I’m just saying your better off staying home and practicing. Or watching television. Or doing whatever. That’s all.
I almost left this next paragraph out regarding where I’m coming from. I decided to leave it in because I thought it might be helpful. So where I’m coming from is along with playing professionally for a decade I wound up owning a sound company that got completely out of hand. National touring acts opened for some of the world class artists who added us to their sound riders back then. Therefore, please take from my comments whatever may be useful, if anything, and disregard the rest. I’m going to very frankly put myself in the position of being there when your act goes on stage. That is, after we just busted our tail feathers unloading and setting up a big system which we also have to tear down, load and transport as soon as the show you are at is done. That is, after we deal with AC power, set changes, monitors, and everything else that goes on at a big show. Doing production at that level is not exactly armed combat (actually, sometimes it is in the event of a hijack attempt), but it comes pretty close. I want our system to sound good and for the entire show to be great. But…
For one thing, I don’t want to mix your set. Neither does anybody else. Where’s your sound woman (gender exclusivity not intended)? Don’t show up at a big show with no one to mix FOH, and then complain you don’t like the sound. Okay? Would you show up with no bass player and then complain there’s no bottom end? What do you expect? If your playing a show big enough to require a sound company and fail to bring someone to mix your set who both knows what they are doing and KNOWS YOUR MATERIAL, then you are failing to provide for what is arguably the most crucial factor to your performance, i.e., making sure you sound good out in the audience.
Oh look! Someone in the audience is signaling to you on stage that you don’t sound good. Big surprise! I guess sometimes depending on whatever else might be happening nobody is paying much attention to what you sound like, since you aren’t. Where’s your road manager? If you don’t have a sound man in the booth, there should at least be someone to cue the guy who has to mix your set, since you didn’t bring anyone. Unless you don’t mind instrument solo’s, for example, coming up in the mix a measure or two after they start, etc. If the system isn’t sounding good while your on stage, at least your road manager might be able to find somebody to resolve the issue if the guy running the board can’t or won’t do anything about it. Oh, wait! A guy in the audience is going to tell you something’s wrong? Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to do you much good. Your on stage playing your instrument. Your group needs someone ideally with some experience to look out for your interests before, during and after your set.
Being an opening act, you actually have no interests unless you entered into a performance agreement with the promoters. Even then, you have no leverage, but you at least have a position to negotiate from, everyone knows who your road manager is, and there has been PRIOR COMMUNICATION with promoters including the SOUND COMPANY where presumably some agreement has been reached regarding what you can expect to happen, or not to happen, at the show. So while you may not get to, “call the shots in advance”, if you can’t make reasonably satisfactory arrangements for your performance (taking into account the fact that you are an opening act), then all I am suggesting is why bother playing the show? I can’t think of any good reason.
What good is having a valid, signed performance agreement if you have no management personnel on site to ensure (to whatever extent might reasonably be possible) that the terms of such an agreement are fulfilled? You ARE securing signed performance agreements with promoters, aren’t you? Because if there is no performance agreement then you get what you get at the show and that’s the end of the discussion. You have nothing to complain about. Period.
I’ll give you an example from a US Navy manual on naval gunfire. It says, “The key to effective fire support is the force commander's ability to bring [these] assets to bear on the enemy in an integrated and coordinated manner.” Force commander’s do that by making what they call contingency plans where they attempt to foresee problems that might occur and what to do about them. These then become drills to practice prior to battle. The preface to one such manual I have around here somewhere makes the important point that regardless of how much planning and drilling occurs, once the shooting starts, the book goes out the window. Yes, you must have a plan. Yes, you must have adequate assets (resources) which in this case includes a sound man, or if not that someone to look out for your interests who can at least play the role of being your road manager. But the rule is armed combat never (or rarely) actually works out according to any plan. When the shooting starts, you have to think on your feet. Same with live performances. It’s Rock and Roll, brother! You jumped off the porch and now your running with the big dogs at a big show. Are you ready? Doesn’t sound like it to me. Just saying.
Ancient wisdom instructs us that a man without a plan is like a ship without a rudder. A ship without a rudder is not likely to get where its captain wants it to go. You must to the extent possible exert some control over your performances. You do this by negotiating and securing a performance agreement with the promoters where the process includes contact with all interested parties. Such as contact with the sound company, for example! If you don’t do this, or can’t do it, then don’t put yourself in the position of playing before significant crowds if you are not willing to accept whatever happens. Because in that case, your just rolling the dice. Oh, by the way, your rolling the dice anyway, but your vastly increasing your chances of a satisfactory outcome by having a plan and qualified people to assist you in carrying out your plan. Thus, if you desire to reach your destination, don’t be a ship without a rudder. No, you may not be able to call the shots. But you at least should be able to steer your ship. Because once at sea, you may very well encounter sea monsters, storms, rocky shoals and mutiny on the high seas.
It's truly disturbing to hear about sabotage. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I never once saw or heard of anyone purposely attempting to deny any opening act a decent mix or good sound. That is just plain wrong and I wouldn’t have tolerated it from anyone. Period. That doesn’t mean I’m going to hold your hand at a show. Get your act together and I think you will be far happier with the outcome of your performances.
Oh, and your welcome, of course. Any time. I’ll just add the time it took to type this up to my practice schedule for tomorrow after I cast my spells for the day. No problem.
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I know this thread kind of resolved, but an article about the Van Halen/Black Sabbath pairing came up on my Twitter feed and I had to share...
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