Double Bass EA Wizzy or hold out for EA 2x8?

[bribass]

I'd like something smallish, and kinda light in a 4 ohm cab for lower/med volume gigs w/ my Focus 2R III. Should I get a Whizzy or hold out for those new EA 2x8 when they come out?

PS I have an Aguilar 1x12' w/ tweeter, don't own any 8" or neo cabs and I have never own any EA gear.

Thanks for the advice,

BG

 

[robgrow]

I'd like something smallish, and kinda light in a 4 ohm cab for lower/med volume gigs w/ my Focus 2R III. Should I get a Whizzy or hold out for those new EA 2x8 when they come out?

PS I have an Aguilar 1x12' w/ tweeter, don't own any 8" or neo cabs and I have never own any EA gear.

Thanks for the advice,

BG

I don't have a VL208, and I haven't a clue when the new EA 208 will be available if ever. I do have an EA Wizzy cab however, and I'm very happy with it. It puts out an amazing amount of sound for a relatively small and lightweight speaker cab, particularly when driven by my green light Walter Woods amp. The low end is warm and tight, and the mids are very smooth. The Wizzy has great clarity overall, and I've had many positive comments about it. The Wizzy also works as well for double bass as it does for bass guitar. Finally, I like the size and weight and the overall package, and I find the Wizzy very easy to transport, which is a pretty big deal to me.

Edit: I had added a comment to my original post about comparison of the Wizzy to other speakers at the Midwest belchfest in May, however so as to not confuse anyone, I've found that the Wizzy works very well out in the real world, which is all I really care about.

 

[fish slapper]

Aren't the Wizzy's rated at 200 watts? The focus puts out 600 watts at 4 ohm? Aren't you going to have to be really careful with that power? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[bribass]

Aren't the Wizzy's rated at 200 watts? The focus puts out 600 watts at 4 ohm? Aren't you going to have to be really careful with that power? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, I guess that could be an issue w/ the Focus/ Whizzy pairing, but I do also have a WW green light.

I think I'd mainly need it for gigs where I want to go hi-fi (more hi-fi than my combos), but where the Aguilar 12 or Flite w/ EV Proline 15" would be overkill for the room or stage or too much to schlepp. These are the only two cabs I have right now. I need something smaller and I generally don't like 10's. They've always sounded brittle and/or honky to me.

I wonder how careful you'd have to be w/ 600 watts into a 4ohm cab rated at 200Watts?

BG

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I wonder how careful you'd have to be w/ 600 watts into a 4ohm cab rated at 200Watts?

BG

Not very - just use your ears, and your common sense. If it sounds good, it is good. Over on the BG side, they've got more than a couple of techies who argue that it's better to have way more headroom than you'll ever need or use.

 

[robgrow]

Aren't the Wizzy's rated at 200 watts? The focus puts out 600 watts at 4 ohm? Aren't you going to have to be really careful with that power? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've found the Wizzy to be very comfortable when driven by my green light Walter Woods which can develop 450 watts into 4 ohms. There's never even a hint of any strain or distortion. As Chris says, just use your ears. In general it is a very good thing to have lots of headroom.

 

[Uncletoad]

I wonder how careful you'd have to be w/ 600 watts into a 4ohm cab rated at 200Watts?

BG

No where near as careful as you'd think. Clean power won't kill speakers as fast as distortion. I routinely run a WWU into a single VL208. Way over its power rating. I ran a Crown Macrotech 1200 into a pair of 4 ohm 210 cabinets rated at 200 watts each. Thats like 600 watts into them. Never broke even after 5 years of heavy gigs.

I don't have a VL208, and I haven't a clue when the new EA 208 will be available if ever. I do have an EA Wizzy cab however, and I'm very happy with it. It puts out an amazing amount of sound for a relatively small and lightweight speaker cab, particularly when driven by my green light Walter Woods amp. The low end is warm and tight, and the mids are very smooth.

The new Wizzy 4 ohm M series cab is supposed to be a serious new EA contender. Ask Mike ChillBlueGrass about his using a demo version. I'm going to bug Tom Bowtomygear to do a comparison with the 208.

 

[bribass]

I've found the Wizzy to be very comfortable when driven by my green light Walter Woods which can develop 450 watts into 4 ohms. There's never even a hint of any strain or distortion. As Chris says, just use your ears. In general it is a very good thing to have lots of headroom.

I've always felt that way too. It seems like my WW the Focus are both "happier" at 4 ohms. The Wizzy does seem like a very attractive option, but I've heard and read so many raves about the VL 208's. Seems like multiple small speakers are a great way to get to some clean efficiency out of a cab. And according to (All Hail) Bob G. the new series promises to be very light. Uncletadpole, I guess a Bolus shootout IS called for, but aren't the drivers in the new design going to be different than the VL 208's are? Thanks guys,

Bri

 

[Uncletoad]

Uncletadpole, I guess a Bolus shootout IS called for, but aren't the drivers in the new design going to be different than the VL 208's are? Thanks guys,

Bri

Oh I meant with the VL 208 and the new Wizzy M transmission line box. I'm not holding breath on the NL 208.

This is what I'm talking about...

From Dudepit:

http://www.vintagebass.com/thedudepit/showthread.php?t=18440

http://www.vintagebass.com/thedudepit/showthread.php?t=13358

It's the one on the right. Sorry Tom...

 

[bribass]

Oh I meant with the VL 208 and the new Wizzy M transmission line box. I'm not holding breath on the NL 208.

This is what I'm talking about...

Thanks for those threads. I hadn't heard about the M Transmission line model. It sounds like a great thing.
However, I AM looking for a lttle more midrange focus for my Prescott sound. It has plenty of lows to die for, but when things get loud i could use some more controlled mids than what I get from my current two cabs. After reading Bowlus' posts I'm thinkin' maybe the regular Whizzy would be better for mids, and lighter to boot.

But, I can't help wondering about the new NL208's. Aren't they comming out soon? Why aren't yu holding your breath. You can breath on land or in water? right?

Bri

 

[Uncletoad]

But, I can't help wondering about the new NL208's. Aren't they comming out soon? Why aren't yu holding your breath. You can breath on land or in water? right?

Bri

Doc says I don't breath to good anywhere. Should stop eating so much butter and cheese...

I've been kvetching about the VL 208 being out of production for awhile. As much time as it's taken to get an NL out they could have done a couple runs of 208s special like the Wizzy M. I'm sure I don't understand their business so what do I know.

You are right about the mids. I think the 208 has even more articulate mids than the wizzy, at least in the low mids. Upper mids the first wizzy may do them better. I didn't like the sound of it all that much myself but I go for a stronger big bottom sound rather than a midrange thing.

There is a 208 on Ebay right now. Go get that.

 

[bribass]

Doc says I don't breath to good anywhere. Should stop eating so much butter and cheese...

I've been kvetching about the VL 208 being out of production for awhile. As much time as it's taken to get an NL out they could have done a couple runs of 208s special like the Wizzy M. I'm sure I don't understand their business so what do I know.

You are right about the mids. I think the 208 has even more articulate mids than the wizzy, at least in the low mids. Upper mids the first wizzy may do them better. I didn't like the sound of it all that much myself but I go for a stronger big bottom sound rather than a midrange thing.

There is a 208 on Ebay right now. Go get that.

I do too. That's why I fell in love w/ my Prescott, but sometimes ya need the mids to cut thru the drum & bugle core guys. Which didn't you like the sound of? the 208 or Wizzy? thanks for the ebay heads up,

friebrie

 

[Uncletoad]

I do too. That's why I fell in love w/ my Prescott, but sometimes ya need the mids to cut thru the drum & bugle core guys. Which didn't you like the sound of? the 208 or Wizzy? thanks for the ebay heads up,

friebrie

I've tried the original Wizzy twice side by side with the VL208 and I've prefered the VL208 each time. Never took a Wizzy out on a gig so YMMV.

Makes the third set a bit uncomfortable until I get home...

 

[drurb]

I've found the Wizzy to be very comfortable when driven by my green light Walter Woods which can develop 450 watts into 4 ohms. There's never even a hint of any strain or distortion. As Chris says, just use your ears. In general it is a very good thing to have lots of headroom.

Gosh, maybe I should just write a long post that would qualify as a sticky. The notion that too little power kills more speakers than does too much comes from the hi-fi world and is quite true. When a power amp reaches its limit, it clips. The resultant squaring-off of the desired waveform transfers vast quantities of energy to high frequencies. This kills tweeters. They're the first to go under such circumstances. So, if you are using multi-driver systems, yes, you do need to worry about too little power.

The situation with driving a cabinet with an amplifier well above its power-rating is a bit different. For woofers especially, over-driving typically produces audible warning-signs. You can hear the cone being over-driven and the resultant "break-up." So yes, use your ears.

Now, with regard to the notion that you can never have enough headroom, that is just plain false. (robgrow, I'm not picking on you and I know you didn't say that but it was implied in other posts.) As I've noted in these threads many, many times before, what counts is sound-pressure level.

See here and, especially, here.

No, there is no real advantage in buying as much power as you possibly can. Those who would have you believe that there is any practical advantage in this are mis-informed. One must also keep in mind that every doubling in power is a change of 3 dB. See here.

Finally, it seems useful to define "headroom." That spec refers to the amount of power an amplifier can deliver over and above its continuous rating for short, "transient" periods. Both the continuous power rating and the headroom rating should be accompanied by a specified level of distortion. The formal headroom spec also includes the "burst" time over which the transient capability is to be measured but I won't go into that.

The botttom line to all of this (especially if you actually read those links) is that one should consider the sensitivity of the cabinet(s) in terms of SPL, and the power-rating of the cabinets and buy an appropriate amplifier. In general, too much power will not hurt at all (if you use your ears) but you may end up wasting $$$ if you adopt the "more is always better" attitude.

 

[Uncletoad]

...The notion that too little power kills more speakers than does too much comes from the hi-fi world and is quite true. When a power amp reaches its limit, it clips....Now, with regard to the notion that you can never have enough headroom, that is just plain false. ...what counts is sound-pressure level.....No, there is no real advantage in buying as much power as you possibly can. Those who would have you believe that there is any practical advantage in this are mis-informed. ....In general, too much power will not hurt at all (if you use your ears) but you may end up wasting $$$ if you adopt the "more is always better" attitude.

I agree with most of that.

SPL is exactly what is being created and that's the statistic that matters most.

It seems to me that at the end of an amps power band is where its distortion is most likely to occur. Especially when it gets hot. I've noticed that when you are playing loud but beneath the overexcusion limits of the speaker set, a higher power amp tends to be cleaner than a lesser powered amp as it is further away from where it starts to fall apart.

That's why the PA company I worked for years ago always carried around so many huge amps. They never ran all the way out. As a result the amps stayed cool and it was always clean while pushing the speakers to the edge of the SPLs they could muster without amplifier distortion.

My experience with my recent trial on the Focus vs Walter Woods proved that point quickly to me. The Woods pushes a ton of sound out of a VL208. The Focus runs out of room before the cabinet really starts to rattle windows. The Focus is a 400 watt amp into a 400 watt cab. The Woods is an 800 watt amp into the 400 watt cab. The Woods pushes that cab into the edge of what it can do and really sounds excellent doing it. The Focus...not so much.

 

[drurb]

I agree with most of that.

SPL is exactly what is being created and that's the statistic that matters most.

It seems to me that at the end of an amps power band is where its distortion is most likely to occur. Especially when it gets hot. I've noticed that when you are playing loud but beneath the overexcusion limits of the speaker set, a higher power amp tends to be cleaner than a lesser powered amp as it is further away from where it starts to fall apart.

That's why the PA company I worked for years ago always carried around so many huge amps. They never ran all the way out. As a result the amps stayed cool and it was always clean while pushing the speakers to the edge of the SPLs they could muster without amplifier distortion.

My experience with my recent trial on the Focus vs Walter Woods proved that point quickly to me. The Woods pushes a ton of sound out of a VL208. The Focus runs out of room before the cabinet really starts to rattle windows. The Focus is a 400 watt amp into a 400 watt cab. The Woods is an 800 watt amp into the 400 watt cab. The Woods pushes that cab into the edge of what it can do and really sounds excellent doing it. The Focus...not so much.

Well, if you are getting to the end of an amp's power envelope, then, yes, that is where distortion will rise. If you are nearing that point, then it is useful to have more power. We really don't disagree at all. The point is that once you are well away from the edge of the envelope, buying more and more power doesn't really get you anywhere except in the position of having a lighter wallet.

As I suspect you'd agree, a 400-watt amp into a 400-watt cab really doesn't convey useful information, in general. If that cab that could handle 400 watts had a sensitivity of say, 115 db SPL @ 1 watt @ 1 meter, then that 400 watts might deafen you.

 

[bribass]

My experience with my recent trial on the Focus vs Walter Woods proved that point quickly to me. The Woods pushes a ton of sound out of a VL208. The Focus runs out of room before the cabinet really starts to rattle windows. The Focus is a 400 watt amp into a 400 watt cab. The Woods is an 800 watt amp into the 400 watt cab. The Woods pushes that cab into the edge of what it can do and really sounds excellent doing it. The Focus...not so much.

That's why I'm thinking the Wizzy would be good for the Focus since it's a 4 ohm cab. Isn't the VL208 8 ohms?

Bri

 

[jmain]

That's why I'm thinking the Wizzy would be good for the Focus since it's a 4 ohm cab. Isn't the VL208 8 ohms?

Bri

Yes.

 

[bribass]

Yes.

Therefore, w/ my focus rated at 800 watts w/ 4ohm loads, the Wizzy would run super clean, coaxing out the added wattage of the Focus. But, as w/ any small cab, w/ that much power you could probably hurt it if you were really trying to.

and sure, that same amp w/ the 8ohm load of a VL208 would only get 450 Watts out of the Focus and would probably sound great, but perhaps when pushed would not run as clean as the 800 watt into the 8ohm load that the WWU could supply.

But my WW is an old green light, dual channel guy, putting out perhaps only 225 watts into 8ohms.When I use it w/ two, 8 ohm cabs the load coaxes alot more wattage out of it and sounds great. Probably would be cool w/ a Wizzy as well.

So I'm getting pretty sold at picking up a EA cab. And it seems I can rule out a used VL2x8 and opt for a 4ohm cab w/ the current heads that I own. Close to 1K for a used cab seems a bit much.

The questions now are when will EA put out the new 2x8 and will they make it in a 4ohm model?

If not that, the stock Wizzy or special edition Wizzy M (if I can get one)?
The prelim reveiws on the M test models sound impressive.

I'd like to keep it under 33ish lbs. if I can, so I think this rules out most any other 4 ohm cab w/ 2x8's or 1x12 as well, no?

 

[mchildree]

Steve Barr at the Dudepit just got the last 3 Limited Edition M-Line Wizzys for VBTC. You might get one of his if you hurry....like REALLY quickly....