I just wanted to tell you that a month ago I contacted Philip Graham at ETL and discussed the single biggest shortcoming of their microphone Nadine. I explained my frustrations of not being able to travel with Nadine mounted on my bass. As a gigging musician, I simply won't spend the time to take out, set up and dial in Nadine if I have to carry it to the gig. My suggestion was to make a 90 degree mod so that the mic can remain on the bass and be able to live inside the bass case while traveling. Philip took me up on this, I received it a couple days ago, mounted it and traveled to and from a gig yesterday with the mic mounted on my bass! This is a very welcome modification that with some care on my part will solve my single complaint about the mic. For the record, I used it last night with much success and a 60%Lifeline/40%ETL balance. I call this ETL mic "Leona" though I suspect if he markets it it will be Nadine v2.
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Double Bass Ear Trumpet Labs Nadine improvement
- Thread starter Sam Reese
- Start date
Gollihur Music has announced that they will be stocking Nadine starting ~Nov. 5.
Oh my god that looks great- I wanna!
What did you have to pay for it? Did you install it yourself? Was that an easy fix?
And what about the groupies of all genders- they diggin' it?
best
Sidecar
It was my idea and Philip Graham built it for me. Hopefully Ear Trumpet Labs will adopt it as the de facto design so everybody that likes the idea of keeping their mic installed will get the same privilege I have!
While you're at it, encourage them to make the mic lighter weight, especially the tailpiece jack. Seems like a great design but one that adds too much weight.
A lighter mic can pickup more underlength vibration, since it can be thrown around more by the underlengths.
I have no idea how much that would influence sound (that highly depends on the weight difference), but we should be aware of that when we call for a lighter mic that is clamped at the underlengths.
I have no idea how much that would influence sound (that highly depends on the weight difference), but we should be aware of that when we call for a lighter mic that is clamped at the underlengths.
I am neither a physicist nor experienced with tailpiece-mounted microphones, but that's never prevented me from spouting off nonsense on internet forums...
Sir Issac Newton's laws of motion, paraphrased:
1. An object at rest tends to stay at rest; it resists motion
2. That motion depends on the object's mass, heavier objects resist more
3. When one object attempts to move another object, the second exerts an equal-and-opposite force
So it seems like the heaver the microphone, the more those vibrations will go into the microphone itself, causing noise; the lighter the microphone, the more the microphone will be moved without resistance. The heavier the microphone, the more it will dampen the natural vibration of the afterlength and tailpiece; the lighter the microphone, the less impact on the natural acoustic sound of your bass.
Maybe I'm completely out of my understanding, or maybe the real world has influences that make theory irrelevant. But the argument that we ought to have heavier microphones attached to our tailpieces sure seems counterintuitive to me!
I've read a lot of great technical comments from you @DoubleMIDI, so I'm not criticizing; genuinely curious whether what you propose is true!
There's an extreme difference between the mass of the Nadine and, say, the DPA 4099!
And just so I'm not completely derailing this thread, I have to say that being able to semi-permanently attach the Nadine, unzip my bag and plug in at a gig, is very attractive.
I'm fighting the balance between good live sound and clusterf*ck setup. I hastily attached my ATM350 to my bridge foot a couple gigs ago, and had it come loose mid-song, with the mic capsule physically flapping against the body of my bass, confusing the poor sound man and terrorizing the audience with massive booming mud.
I'd love a set-it-and-forget-it solution, especially one that looks this sexy!
I'm fighting the balance between good live sound and clusterf*ck setup. I hastily attached my ATM350 to my bridge foot a couple gigs ago, and had it come loose mid-song, with the mic capsule physically flapping against the body of my bass, confusing the poor sound man and terrorizing the audience with massive booming mud.
I'd love a set-it-and-forget-it solution, especially one that looks this sexy!
I hate setting up. I like unpacking and plugging in. Now Nadine will always be considered, because it's on my bass. As for this mic weight and afterlength mumbo-jumbo, I dunno...
Maybe, if you're considering getting a Nadine, ask ETL or Gollihur whether it's the original design or my road-worthy design.
How is this new improved version different from the original? I had one a year or so ago and it would have easily met the use case of staying on my bass while in gig bag. Must be missing something here... (?)
@Ukiah Bass On the standard Nadine at the mounting area the cable sticks out perpendicular to the strings. The mod has the cable 90 degrees exiting parallel to the strings. There's no way I would ever leave the standard Nadine on while travelling because of the danger of crimping the cable. I wanted to, but didn't have the balls to do it. I got frustrated one Friday evening and called ETL and asked for "the boss". Philip is who answered the phone and I explained the issues of not being able to leave it installed and he did a fantastic job and used a more elegant design than I could have ever imagined and boom- I got what I asked for. The trade-off was I had to send my original Nadine back to him and he can use the mod as he chooses.
The higher mass indeed generated more reflections at the mounting point (back to the bridge), which makes the afterlengths effectively shorter.
A higher mass needs more energy to be moved the same distance. Since the force is alternating in direction, the higher mass would be less moved than a smaller mass due to its higher inertia.
It doesn't matter (much) if an air mic moves periodically against the air or the air against the air mic. The only sdifference is the inertia of the membrane that tries to stay in place and the mic around it moves (principle of a contact mic). So if the mic is thrown around more, this vibration will add to the steady state air movement.
As I said, I don't know how much that would influence the bass air movement signal, but it would always be there and amount depends on the weight of the mic and the tension of the afterlengths.
A higher mass needs more energy to be moved the same distance. Since the force is alternating in direction, the higher mass would be less moved than a smaller mass due to its higher inertia.
It doesn't matter (much) if an air mic moves periodically against the air or the air against the air mic. The only sdifference is the inertia of the membrane that tries to stay in place and the mic around it moves (principle of a contact mic). So if the mic is thrown around more, this vibration will add to the steady state air movement.
As I said, I don't know how much that would influence the bass air movement signal, but it would always be there and amount depends on the weight of the mic and the tension of the afterlengths.
Thanks for reminding me of that detail. I even took a photo of the evidence, but it was misfiled in the evidence locker.
- Jul 19, 2000
- 2,015
- 2,227
- Disclosures
- Owner/President, Gollihur Music LLC
So...
- I spoke to the folks at ETL, and there is no plan to make the right-angle exit a permanent running feature; they can do it as a custom modification for interested parties, but the mod adds additional weight (onto the afterlengths) and most players are able to have the mic on the bass under a cover even with the current model, as it doesn't stick out far. They're willing to hear opposing opinions, but that's the latest.
- We got the Nadines in stock late last week. Man, they're frigging sweet!
It sure is a pretty looking microphone and the price is reasonable. If there was ever a good endorsement here's Christian Mc Bride playing with Keb Mo.
All that said I really like my Remic Green and Red, Just my take
. My takeaway is that microphones for Double Bass have come a very long way in recent years,
From someone who isn't a fan of pickups, it's a real blessing.
All that said I really like my Remic Green and Red, Just my take
. My takeaway is that microphones for Double Bass have come a very long way in recent years,From someone who isn't a fan of pickups, it's a real blessing.
I think the notion that the little brass elbow (that's the mod to Nadine) "adds weight" is BS. The mic itself adds 99+% of the weight. If you have a soundman or don't play tons of gigs or aren't as lazy as me Nadine V1 is totally acceptable. If you don't have a road crew, play lots of gigs and want to set up fast- I suggest getting the modded variety. I think we all like what we have and look at it with rose colored glasses. I'm confident I would love most of the other mics available, if that is what I owned. This thread was simply to tell TBers about an effective, simple mod on Nadine that makes my life more efficient. It's not a sales pitch. nor is it an invitation to expound on other microphones. The truth of the matter is that microphones don't really cut it in the bar, winery, microbrewery scene. Nadine augments my sound in these settings, if possible. To get the task at hand done with the appropriate volume invariably requires either my Gage Lifeline or my Krivo magnetic pickup. This is the real state of affairs in gig world, nonetheless my microphone sounds best!
EDIT: honest sounding video
EDIT: honest sounding video
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In case you were criticizing me:
Someone else wanted the Nadine lighter and I argued that lighter doesn't need to be better because the mic can get thrown sound easier by the vibrating underlengths that will get into the mic signal stronger than with a heavier mic.
I was only explaining that there is something else to consider too and I let it open how strong this influence might be.
Someone else wanted the Nadine lighter and I argued that lighter doesn't need to be better because the mic can get thrown sound easier by the vibrating underlengths that will get into the mic signal stronger than with a heavier mic.
I was only explaining that there is something else to consider too and I let it open how strong this influence might be.
Sam - thanks for this post. I am curious, what do you use as a preamp for blending the Nadine with the pickups (Lifeline or Krivo?)
@bherman I have two ways to blend. Live, I feed both into separate channels on an Allen & Heath mixer with the Lifeline passing thru an LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI. My other way of blending is with a Euphonic Audio Doubler both straight into the amp. I've been gaining confidence using the EA amp with Nadine and given the right circumstance, I'll take the amp to a gig. I have an EA NL210 cabinet that is hi-fi and the only time I ever felt I was truly getting MBOL was with Nadine into the EA rig.
