Eden WTX500 not loud enough for live?!

[JustinG60]

Hello everyone. Hate to seem like that guy that registers just to ask something stupid but I have been lurking for a while and couldn't search an answer to this...

I play in a pop punk band now (I know, it's been a struggle to keep entertained at times because they want roots and I want to got for a stroll) but I can only hear myself when I am by my amp. Running the Eden WTX500 (500w at 4ohm) through a Fender Pro 410 cab (8 ohm).

If I am remembering my wiring correctly this cab can't be required to 4ohm so my question is, do you think going to an Ampeg SVT410HLF to get to 4 ohms will make the difference I need? Or would getting a second cab get me there? I'm assuming not because this head wasn't any louder through an Ampeg SVT810.

Thanks for any input!

P.s. since I saw it in searches... Enhance is at 2, bass around 4, mids around 6.5, and treble around 6. Volume maxed. Gain is up to 3.5-ish before it clips ...trying not to blow my can from clips if that's a thing

 

[agedhorse]

Another identical 410 will get you a lot more performance. Right now, you are getting less than 300 watts from your amp, plus you will gain some additional sensitivity from the second cabinet in addition to more power from your amp.

 

[JustinG60]

Thank you for taking the time to respond! My lack of experience will show here in a second but I was under the assumption that my 8 ohm output of 250 - 280w would have been then split in half for the 2 cabs? I guess I was wrong there.

Since I'm looking, I saw these cabs and dirt cheap now a days so it would be worth picking one up just to try it out

 

[Wasnex]

Thank you for taking the time to respond! My lack of experience will show here in a second but I was under the assumption that my 8 ohm output of 250 - 280w would have been then split in half for the 2 cabs? I guess I was wrong there.

Since I'm looking, I saw these cabs and dirt cheap now a days so it would be worth picking one up just to try it out

When you add an identical cab 8 ohm the amp makes more power (500W at 4 ohms), the power is split equally between the two 8 ohms cabs, and coupling between the two identical cabs results in increased efficiency.

When you use cabs that are not identical, efficiency, phase, and group delay differences are likely to result in less than perfect coupling. The resultant sound may be good or not.

 

[Texican]

Thank you for taking the time to respond! My lack of experience will show here in a second but I was under the assumption that my 8 ohm output of 250 - 280w would have been then split in half for the 2 cabs? I guess I was wrong there.

Since I'm looking, I saw these cabs and dirt cheap now a days so it would be worth picking one up just to try it out

Just in case you don’t know, you’ll be running a 4ohm load to your head with two 8ohm cabs. Your amp will be putting out 500W, with 250W going to each cab.

Now for the standard questions: how many guitar players are in your band? What amps are they using? Are they running way too much bass and low mid frequency, thus stealing your sonic space?

Aside from the fact that you guys are probably playing too loud (God I sound old), your guitar players can help you out by cutting some of their own lows and letting you do your job... and since they want to dictate what your job is by forcing you to stay on the root note, they should at least stop drowning you out since their job is to be guitar players and not bass players.

On your end, 250W through a 410 should be more than loud enough for rehearsals and small gigs. So what I would suggest is cut some bass, boost your mids and high mids, keep your low mids flat, and adjust treble to taste. Keep the enhance knob OFF since it’s more than likely a mid-scoop/hi-low boost. You need to be as frugal with your watts as possible. Feed them to the mids, because the mids are what you hear cutting through a mix.

Getting a second 410 will dramatically increase not only what you hear, but also what you feel. It will be awesome… Just keep in mind that you will also be dramatically increasing the size and weight of your rig. Good luck getting your guitar players to help move it LOL. And don’t ask the drummer for help… He’s already pissed off at you guys for screwing up his cymbal stands every time you “help” him setup and tear down!

 

[pcake]

getting a second 8 ohm cab is more likely to get you there because watts aren't the only thing that dictates how loud your rig can get - they're not even the most important thing. running 8 speakers instead of 4 will move a lot more air and make a bigger difference to how loud you are. if you like your fender cab, adding a second one will be a lot more use than replacing it with a 4 ohm cab.

btw, i played in a punk band where my 600 watt rig really wasn't enough, but i didn't have two 4x10s, either. i used an 8 ohm 1x18 alone. when i got a 1000 watt head and added an 8 ohm 2x10, i could hear myself much better and my bandmates said they were happy to be able to really hear the bass.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Hello everyone. Hate to seem like that guy that registers just to ask something stupid but I have been lurking for a while and couldn't search an answer to this...

Better to feel stupid for asking a question than feeling stupid paying an unnecessary repair bill!

Don't feel bad. Some of us have been here for years and still ask stupid questions.
Especially that guy looking at me in the mirror.

 

[lz4005]

My lack of experience will show here in a second but I was under the assumption that my 8 ohm output of 250 - 280w would have been then split in half for the 2 cabs? I guess I was wrong there.

Yup. As others have said, the amp will make (theoretically) 500w at 4 ohms. Which you noted in your first post. If you add a second 8 ohm 4x10 the power going to each speaker will pretty much stay the same.

Right now you're sending about 60 watts to each speaker. If you double the speakers and double the watts by doubling the ohms you'll still have about 60w going to each speaker, but with twice as much total speaker area they'll move a lot more air and make a lot more volume.

 

[JustinG60]

just wanted to say thanks to everyone that took the time to respond! i didn't take the time to think about the theory of it and if i'm being honest i probably wouldn't have believed myself if i did haha!

again, thanks for taking the time to respond to a new guy with a simple question!

 

[JustinG60]

So I wanted a final check in for search purposes since most don't post their resolution.

So after being told I was too quiet I proposed the guitars are too loud and too much bass dialed into their tone which masks me. They kind of thought I was crazy since my previous SVT4 Pro and Ampeg 810 had no issues and hinted my mobile rig just isn't powerful enough

...I cut the bass from my amp, pushed the mids at 2.2k and dialed a bit more treble for a bass sound that will cut lunch meat. Well after one song they said I was so loud they couldn't hear themselves.

Redialed to a normal fat and lightly springy sound (was an avid SWR player) but I'm still around gain of 4 and about 66% to 75% of the amp's power on the volume knob.

The Fender Pro 410 is a 600w max at 8ohm so I'm giving it damn near it's RMS as intended.

Final thoughts. I love this amp for my sounds and yes it may struggle to do actual full live volume with no PA but it will do it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions on the way!

 

[BogeyBass]

Almost any typical 4x10 can't do much more than 300 watts till speaker distortion sits in.

And depending on drivers, majority of fender cabs actually have way more sensitivity than Ampegs.

Tone settings can punch through alot. It's good you beat them at their game with just basic tone settings. Have been in multiple bands with 2 loud guitars. Understanding tone is the name of the game.