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Double Bass Encourage creativity?

Tom Lane

Gold Supporting Member
Apr 28, 2011
3,594
5,174
Southwest Los Angeles, CA, USA
As a band leader, I find that I want to encourage my band mates to reach new levels of creativity for all of the good reasons you can imagine having to do with the art. I’ve given this some consideration and can see that there are a bunch of different variables to change to good effect - tempo, style, who plays the head, etc. My goal is to help propel the tunes into a life of their own, where our creativity takes off rather than playing the same intro-head-solos-outhead-outro trance. Any suggestions? What's worked well for you?
 
Writing simple arrangements can be a nice way to break the cycle of sameness, especially if those arrangements have added material (intros, interludes, vamps, etc.) that aren't in the original body of the tune. When I think back on some of my favorite recordings, one of the things that stands out to me is the way each tune seems to have its own character and vibe almost before the first note is sounded, making what comes after seem inevitable (which is a far different thing than predictable). Even something as simple as choosing a particular groove or vibe for a tune that is different from the usual can be enough to propel the tune in wonderful new directions. One of my favorite examples from a recent record is this great version of "If I Were A Bell" by Gerald Clayton:
 
. . . there are a bunch of different variables to change to good effect - tempo, style, who plays the head, etc. My goal is to help propel the tunes into a life of their own, where our creativity takes off rather than playing the same intro-head-solos-outhead-outro trance.
All very, very worthy considerations for a bandleader and arranger. But you don't just "encourage bandmates to reach new levels of creativity" as a bandleader: Model it as a soloist and kick them in the ass as a bassist.

At the risk of re-exposure as a musical clod -- there are much better players and deep educators who post here, and I hope they point out the many gaps in what I'm about to say -- but in addition to the necessary and valuable arranging tools you've noted, the tools available to a any improvising musician are (in no particular order):
. Dynamics
. Rhythm: Density, intensity, congruence or incongruence
. Pitch: Registration, angularity or connection, harmonic congruence or incongruence
. Dynamics
. Overall melodicism
. Overall commitment and emotional intensity

If you build variety in these points into your solo your solo will be more interesting to listeners and bandmates. If you build variety in these points into your accompaniment you will help the people you play with sound more interesting to listeners, bandmates and themselves. "Interesting" might not be the same as "creativity" but I submit that it's at least a giant step in that direction.

Interesting solos and varied arrangements build trust between performers and listeners. Listeners will go with you to places which are outside their usual comfort zone if they can trust you to help them return. At that point, it doesn't matter whether you're playing The Blue Note or standing next to the dessert table for Sunday brunch: You, your band and your listeners will all have a better time.

Finally, it's important to note the basic question of repertoire. It's not easier to achieve your goal applying these techniques to the most Bb shopworn setlist. Yes, The Keith Jarrett Trio can pull it off every night but you can ease your task by finding different material which speaks to you -- perhaps even music you write.

Please pardon me for beating the obvious into the ground. I'm back to my cave and eager to see what you whip up!
 
#1. Exactly, and check around on verses to over played tunes. Sinatra did "Stardust" with only the verse and left the whole main part of the tune out of the recording. As Chris said, doing tunes that are normally done in 4 can be reborn by doing them in 3 or 7. Ballads as medium or up tempo and vice versa. "Tea for two" used to always be done as a cha cha in the old days but makes a great ballad with the verse included. Listen to "Haunted heart" by the great Opera star, Renee Flemming and my old friend, Fred Hersch. @ about about 2:30, they do the middle part that most people don't even know exists........

Also, mixing up solo turns is fun.......giving the bass the first solo or the piano/guitar rather than the standard horn first solo. Having the bass walk the form behind a drum solo is nice, as well.
Good luck.....
 
Ask each player to pick a song that can be THEIR song eg. they arrange it to feature their playing.

I've insisted we play Besame Mucho like the playful Nat King Cole version. Bass really drives the song.

Another group had a piece with this breathtaking alto sax cadenza that always got the biggest clap of the gig.
 
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Trombone player at school LOVED to play The Stripper...loud glissandos, loads of fun for audience and band alike.



Have two players (eg Sax & Trumpet) arrange a handful of harmonies/ riffs to play together. Great contrast to the improv.


Have a song or two where you drop back to a trio. Allow space to really feature the piano.


Have a short danceable bracket with uptempo swing songs (eg. Mr. Zoot Suit - Ingrid Lucia & the Flying Neutrinos). Strong constant drum beat, lots of energy and intensity (Gene Krupa style).
 
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It depends a lot on the style of music and improvising. I find that creative playing in a post-bop situation can take off when there is a basic structure, but also the willingness and trust to let things develop organically—even outside of a pre-determined structure. You could try taking a set of music, say 4 tunes that everyone is comfortable with, and create an hour-long suite. Don't end one tune and count off the next tune, instead let different players play an interlude, free solo, or vamp at the end of one tune that eventually leads into the next tune. One interlude could be a free bass solo, the next one could be a drum/sax duet, etc. You could have, for example, a "ballad" between the 3rd and 4th tunes that is just a set of chord changes, in the mood of 'Flamenco Sketches' (not that tune, but something that is just a loose framework of chord sounds). The "tunes" that you do play might be more arranged, or they also might find a looseness within the framework of the interlude— tune—interlude—tune—interlude format. This style of band playing encourages everyone to take part and add their voice, but everyone knows that there will be key landmarks (tune 1, tune 2, etc) that they know and can grab onto if things get too far out.

Just some thoughts. As I mentioned though, creativity is much different if you're playing stylistically specific music—bebop or swing. I think the creative process can be just as deep (or often deeper) when one is dealing with very specific stylistic restrictions (i.e. bebop), but experimenting with the band dynamic in any style of music can only help a group of musicians grow.
 
UNKA PEEDUB said:
Sinatra did "Stardust" with only the verse and left the whole main part of the tune out of the recording.
I thought it was Andy Laverne, but I think DURRL checked and it weren't, but SOMEBODY (a pianist) did a rekkid of just verses - melody, blow over the form of the verse, melody out. I only wish I could remember WHO....
 
I think it also depends on the guys you're playing with. If they're still trying to get their poopie together can't get their heads out of the book, you're gonna be stuck. In some cases, it's better to simply find another group to play with that will focus more on that creative side. If they have no imagination, you're kinda shaged.

In any case, my vote is for leading by example or create situations in which it forces to them to be more creative. Ask for bass features and force an arrangement on them.

My experience has been that writing my own compositions has been most effective. There is no reference recording to bass it off of and everything is coming from your own imagination. If you don't like it a particular way, you can tell them and they'll have to adjust. There's nothing to cling other than what you write out on paper.

And since it's your composition, you can write in any crazy stuff that breaks the typical form/habits. You can give them more background on your own tunes and impart some sense of reason behind the song.

Example: One tune I wrote, I told them the back story to the song and told them that the head is never to be played the same way twice (it's part of the story). So if they play it the same way twice, they're doing it wrong.
 
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Wow! I think I just got a Master's class in jazz band management! Thanks guys! Many excellent points.
I agree with Huy that originals are one way to spur creativity. My experience has been that almost all bands play originals almost, er, naturally. I've steered away from composing so far because I feel I have so much more to learn and a lot of the folks I've encountered who composed, well, I thought their compositions were kind of amateurish and not that great. I suppose you have to start somewhere, but I think I'm going to hold off a while longer and get deeper into the culture of jazz before I start composing. If I thought I would be better at it, it'd definitely be on the agenda.
John's suggestion about running one tune into another is something I had just put on the set list to try with the band this next weekend. I'm going to try it with Jobim's Insensatez and Freddie Hubbard's Little Sunflower, starting with a

drum solo leading into a
vamp, then the
head played by guitar, instead of the sax,
solos,
vamp out to
drum solo to
new vamp,
Little Sunflower head played by the sax,
solos,
vamp out to
drum solo ending.
I like this because I think it's an easy arrangement that my band mates don't have to memorize before-hand, but I'm hoping that the combination of the tunes back-to-back and the space before, between, and after ought to get them more out of themselves.
Switching up the solo order, and even who solos helps, along with having some players lay out for sections as Chris' Gerald Clayton example demonstrates and Sam and Groove Doctor suggested.
But, all of these things are devices, I think, and if used, sparingly and varied from tune to tune, all help create the effect I'm looking for, namely giving a tune a *life of its own* for that specific performance. Chris summed it up, find something that gives each tune its own personality for that performance.
I wish I could repay you guys. Great lesson. I guess you can at least have the satisfaction of knowing that you've saved a band and an audience from one more vanilla jazz band performance. That ought to have GREAT karma, no?
 
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Maybe this was answered already but what level are the players?

The reason I ask is, as a bandleader myself occasionally, I've learned it works better to play to the strengths of the people I hired rather than get frustrated with what they are not doing. I think a big part of being a band leader is stepping back and letting the band organically evolve. This doesn't mean you can't arrange or write or encourage a direction but you can't force creativity IMHO.

And it sucks but sometimes you might need to replace someone if they are not giving you what you need musically.
 
The danger here is when the giving of freedom turns into the taking of ideas. It is important to provide enough material, direction and decision making to remain a leader. Rather than sticking your name on collective project.
Not sure where that comment was going.... (?).

A strong leader looks for those with equal or greater ability. Enabling their team brings out their best AND makes the leader look good in the process.

Explain your vision repeatedly, encourage your team for their efforts, be gentle with criticism, praise them when they reach that desired goal.
 
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Not sure where that comment was going.... (?).

A strong leader looks for those with equal or greater ability. Enabling their team brings out their best AND makes the leader look good in the process.

Explain your vision repeatedly, encourage your team for their efforts, be gentle with criticism, praise them when they reach that desired goal.

It is going just as it reads. I have been in MANY situations with both "leaders" & "composers" where they rely too much the performer's / side musician's ideas and music. An example could be the three note free bop heads + open/one chord vamps so popular in Brooklyn & Chicago - basically a collective improvisation rather than anyone's full composition. So, yes it GREAT to make some spaces for sidemen, but make sure it is YOUR project (unless you are Miles Davis!).
There is just a point where it becomes ____ / ____ / ____ instead of the ____ trio. Most musicians worth working with can and do get their own concerts play their own ideas and don't need anyone's permission to play their ideas.

As a leader, it should be up to you to figure out your musician's strengths and write for them or pick rep that pushes them and brings those strengths out or even sharpen's weaknesses.
Part of working with a strong leader is getting pushed to do things you wouldn't do on your own. Another part is letting someone else deal with the thinking and logistics!
 
So, I'm not sure, but I think that the band are *intermediate* players. I'm not sure of the typical delineations but, none of us read dots well, so I couldn't say that we're professionals, but they’re all more experienced than I at jazz, and they typically solo and listen well. Advanced amateurs? Semi-pro? The drummer has solid time and a good groove, knows a lot of tunes, and listens extremely well. Rock, funk, technical chops, not his forte. The guitarist is beyond standard voicings and uses what he thinks appropriate at the time. He's pretty creative and imaginative. His solos can grab your attention with their creativity. Wrong notes? Out of ideas? Sometimes. Always dramatic? No. Sometimes boring, yes. Good time? Yes. Great accompanist? Most definitely, extremely developed. The saxophonist can read most charts, listens very well, and solos convincingly with conviction, and expected emotion, but obviously lacks some basic instruction because he's still out of tune on some notes. Still, I personally find him very emotionally engaging with neat melodic ideas. All perfectly realized? No.

All of these guys have been playing jazz longer than me, and they're all a few years older, but are less studious and so, typically, I out-grow the band and replace players with more advanced players as I improve. To some extent that's been a necessity because better players demand other better players and vote the weakest players out. Myself excluded. I'm sure I would have been voted out many, many times if I didn't host the gig. I've been through many generations of players already. But since this is my band, I only call tunes that I play well, so I'm always at least competent, and sometimes much better. Sophistication has come after competence in my case.

Still, I don't put my name out front because I don't think I've earned it. I consider myself an intermediate player and a student at jazz. In comparison to many of the local bands, I think we're better. Too many of our competition are extremely rehearsed or just playing convincingly when they have no idea what they're doing. We're improvisers without complicated arrangements or scripted parts. But, in comparison to National or International acts, we'd be extremely lucky to open for them, IMO. Maybe that's where we belong as performers. Good enough to get an audience involved while poor enough to make the National talent sound better. That's about right, I think. Luckily, in LA, I get to go hear great performers like Jim Hughart, John Pisano, etc, on a regular basis. We’re not stealing their audience, trust me.

I agree with Groove Doctor that my goal is to set up a scenario which allows the players to excel their current abilities.

I don't agree with Damon, that my goal is to imprint my goals/personality/artistic vision onto the band, if I understood him correctly. I suspect Damon is coming from a far more developed artistic direction than I am. I could only dream to be Miles Davis or Art Blakey as a band leader. I'm hoping to encourage an otherwise average or maybe, kindly, better than average jazz band to play better than they typically do. To encourage their inner ear rather than their analytic side. And to encourage the entire band to interact and create something new and novel at the moment, rather than realize my personal artistic vision. I suppose I have the occasional artistic vision, but I do my best to suppress it in favor of a collective vision in the moment. So, I think my goal is to provide the scenario for a real-time collective artistic realization.

I'm not the star and the band is not named after me. None of the players solo so well, IMO, to be able to write their own tickets. Eric Alexander, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, and many, many others currently performing have nothing to worry about from us. Still, I hope to help the players I play with, and me, improve, and provide a better than typical experience for the audience. Believe it or not, we have fans who show up every month to cheer us on. They should be out there cheering on players who've earned it, but I guess they have some sort of personal connection to us and our venue, so they keep showing up. And, okay, I take their tips and pass them onto the other players. For me, the high I get from the music gelling is payment enough.
 
Tom, I think you're on the right path, and any changes you make after carefully considering these issues will be good ones. What a lot of us forget at times is that what makes any style of music (or anything else, for that matter) boring to the people experiencing it is the perception of sameness, and by extension, predictability. The issue of avoiding predictability while striving for overall inevitability is the whole balance of any creative endeavor (IMO, IME, etc.). When you play, you want what you play to make sense so that people can follow it, but so much sense that they don't have to keep listening. It's an incredibly delicate balance.

In terms of "amount of leadership" needed in a group, in my experience the formula basically goes:
Lower level players --> More leadership/direction, especially regarding specifics/details
Higher Level players --> Less leadership/direction, especially regarding specifics/details

I don't see anything wrong with taking advantage of a great player's ability to create (over vamps, etc.), and actually these can be some of the most interesting parts of the music between great players; as John mentions above, following the overall formal structure of highly structured forms connected by more loose/open sections can be really interesting from the audience point of view if done well. What I think can be dangerous is for lower level players to spend time in front of an audience trying to cop the vamp vibe they heard the greatest players they know do on their favorite record and taking too long about generating any real energy because the real firepower that made the inspirational source material work was the chops and experience of the players on the record. This is where a leader comes in in terms of the formulas above, by looking at the big picture and allowing for freedom and growth, but structuring that freedom so that it doesn't overwhelm the abilities of the players.
 
tcl - can you give us some examples of specific songs that need some more 'help'? Maybe we can offer suggestions from our experience.


In one group we did our own arrangement of Georgia on my Mind by Ray Charles. It worked to the strengths of less-experienced singer, the pianist played a lot of great chord subs, and it allowed the bass a lot of rhythmic and chromatic variety in between the 46bpm pulse. Most slow ballads put audiences to sleep, but this one really kept them attentive with dynamic lifts in the B section & band dropping out for two beats to feature singer wailing the high notes, etc.

Edit: +1 to Chris' answer. Very well explained.
 
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Thanks Chris. Sounds like very smart advice. Much appreciated.

Groove, I don't really have a specific tune that needs help. One of my teachers taught me to get inside a tune when I learn it by listening and/or transcribing as many different versions as I can find, hearing all of the different ways the tune can be done, and noting the famous renditions. Then playing through it deeply the way Ed recommended in his *How to Learn a Tune* post. After that process I'll usually have a favorite way to do a tune, tempo, key, style, etc, my own set of changes I like, but I find some tunes are very adaptable and work well 60 bpm and 250 bpm, swing, Latin, or straight-8ths.

I think I found what Chris said, that each tune should have its own personality but I hadn't articulated it. And it's nice if you can change that personality from rendition to rendition to keep things fresh.

Before I started this thread, I noted a long list of variables:
tempo
dynamics
style - swing, Latin, 4/4, 3/4, etc. I tried All the Things You Are in 7/4. I thought it took the tune into a whole new place, but it but it derailed 3 or 4 times so that's out with this band.
texture - number of players, a capela sections, player pairings - drums and melody, etc
intros
outros
riffs
vamps
interludes
key - is Equinox in C minor the same tune as Coltrane played in C# minor? I don't think so.
re-harmonization
add a harmony voice to the melody
change up the melody
voice - arco/pizz, guitar effects, steel/nylon, sticks/brushes/mallets, tenor/soprano sax
changing the soloist order and who solos. I don't solo every tune because I think it's too boring for the audience, and on long slow tunes I'll ask them to share a chorus

So I was asking to see what I had missed. You've all given me some additional great devices and ideas. John's suggestion of running tunes together I hadn't considered. And now I can see I can make vamps longer progressions. I'm looking forward to this Saturday night. I think it'll be more fun yet.
Thanks again for all of your suggestions and great advice! Good karma is knocking at your door!
 
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