EQ schmeee-Q ....

[MarkMcCombs]

Okay, I've been practically obsessed with obtaining the tones I sometimes hear on recordings. My idea was that thru my (decent) stereo, I'd play the recording with the bass tone that I like, and then with my bass plugged into the same stereo, tweak eq/etc. until I'm close to that. Somewhat of a controlled environment, no? Keep in mind we're talking straight-ahead tones, no effects, and sometimes vintage tones and sometimes more modern tones. My bass is coming into the stereo thru a good quality DI (not Countryman or anything).

After 2 weeks of a/b testing like this, using 2 basses and my Hartke Bass Attack preamp/DI (which I believe has more tonal options that the Sansamp), I've come to the conclusion that the best tones I'm getting are just thru the passive DI into the stereo. Using the preamp/DI, it never sounded right, sucked my mids away, and/or just sounded fake. Keep in mind also that I don't have great quality basses, just my American Peavey Millenium and my Squire PJ.

I'm kinda surprised by my findings, and maybe a little disappointed, cuz I like futzing with gear, and now I've found that all I need is my bass and a passive DI.

Should I be surprised at this?

 

[El-Bob]

sometimes the simplest setups have the nicest tones, but the fancy gear sure has it's place too, especially in a live setting when trying to get a nice mix.

 

[bassman1185]

Are you using the "shape" filter on your Hartke DI? That thing cuts out 20db (TWENTY FREAKIN' DECIBELS!!!) of your midrange, so keep that in mind. Also, what sounds good through your stereo at home is going to sound a heck of a lot different through your rig with a band.

 

[MarkMcCombs]

Are you using the "shape" filter on your Hartke DI? That thing cuts out 20db (TWENTY FREAKIN' DECIBELS!!!) of your midrange, so keep that in mind. Also, what sounds good through your stereo at home is going to sound a heck of a lot different through your rig with a band.

both with Shape on and off. Yes, it is heavy handed for sure, but you can increase apparent midrange depending how that control is set.

As for how I sound in a band setting, I'm using IEMs with an Aviom system, so no rig to speak of. I do realize that bass guitar rigs have their own coloration, and that's one thing I'm trying to steer clear of. I think a decent stereo component system is a close enough approximation of a PA system, in the close quarters of my home studio anyhow. I also realize that the only way to really know for sure how you sound in a band setting, with a large PA as we have, is to go wireless and be out in front, but that's not practical.

thanks for your input!

 

[walterw]

EQ is not "free", in that it introduces phase shifts as well as frequency changes.

also, the difference between one kind of bass and another can't really be bridged with EQ either, because things like body construction affect envelope, i.e., one kind of bass may have more treble at the attack but more mids on the sustain than another. EQ won't change that.

finally, pickups in different locations have a different set of cancellation nodes from reading a different section of string. EQ won't change that, either.

 

[Bassamatic]

Further, most recording of bass combines a mic'd sound from an amp with a direct feed, as well as very sophisticated gating, compression, limiting and EQ that are seldom available to the live musician.

It frustrates me, too.

 

[MarkMcCombs]

good points, Walter and Gio. Thanks for your input.

Mark

 

[JackANSI]

Further, most recording of bass combines a mic'd sound from an amp with a direct feed, as well as very sophisticated gating, compression, limiting and EQ that are seldom available to the live musician.

It frustrates me, too.

One thing I've found is unless you're with an act that can afford all of that for your live shows, as long as it sounds good and balanced the majority of people in the crowd don't care.

Another way of looking at it: Would you/your band want to be remembered for just sounding perfect within the realm of your band and with music that just sounded awesome, or do you wish to be remembered as the band that almost sounded like 'X' but not enough for me to enjoy like I was watching 'X'?

Getting that perfect tone of 'X' bassist is more or less like chasing your tail. You're much better off finding your own tone/way that fits with the sound of your band as a whole. That is what 'X' bassist did anyway...

Its just not worth getting frustrated over. Cause then you end up spending money for gear that gets you no closer anyway (since that sound you hear on the album was not just the equipment, but also the engineer and studio equipment that helped get that to sound that way too)

 

[3NotesAbar]

One thing I've found is unless you're with an act that can afford all of that for your live shows, as long as it sounds good and balanced the majority of people in the crowd don't care.

Another way of looking at it: Would you/your band want to be remembered for just sounding perfect within the realm of your band and with music that just sounded awesome, or do you wish to be remembered as the band that almost sounded like 'X' but not enough for me to enjoy like I was watching 'X'?

Getting that perfect tone of 'X' bassist is more or less like chasing your tail. You're much better off finding your own tone/way that fits with the sound of your band as a whole. That is what 'X' bassist did anyway...

Its just not worth getting frustrated over. Cause then you end up spending money for gear that gets you no closer anyway (since that sound you hear on the album was not just the equipment, but also the engineer and studio equipment that helped get that to sound that way too)

I like what you said. I'd like to add on by saying that I once (recently) had an artist signature bass 'X' which really sounded great on its own. Its a sound thats undeniably classic and still being heard in live gigs and various recordings (or rather just minor variations of). But it never once suited my band. There was always this low-mid chasm in my band's sound that made us sound incomplete!

I really like that 'X' sound but whats the point if my band sounds crappy when I sound good alone? Makes me look bad too in a way I figured I'm better off getting the job done for my band and calling it a day (in terms of instrument choice). Of course, the road is long and I'll take awhile to get to the point where I'm happy with my sound For the band, but it is definitely worth it. It just sucks that I play at too many venues to keep things consistent as I don't have fantastic EQ-ing skills and my fingers pretty much play the way I've been playing for the longest time. I'm still learning to compensate with technology and trying hard to play with different right hand techniques, even if the multiple venues with inconsistent are a killjoy all the time. Sorry if my post is too long. Cheers!

 

[Paulie_m]

Okay, I've been practically obsessed with obtaining the tones I sometimes hear on recordings. My idea was that thru my (decent) stereo, I'd play the recording with the bass tone that I like, and then with my bass plugged into the same stereo, tweak eq/etc. until I'm close to that. Somewhat of a controlled environment, no? Keep in mind we're talking straight-ahead tones, no effects, and sometimes vintage tones and sometimes more modern tones. My bass is coming into the stereo thru a good quality DI (not Countryman or anything).

After 2 weeks of a/b testing like this, using 2 basses and my Hartke Bass Attack preamp/DI (which I believe has more tonal options that the Sansamp), I've come to the conclusion that the best tones I'm getting are just thru the passive DI into the stereo. Using the preamp/DI, it never sounded right, sucked my mids away, and/or just sounded fake. Keep in mind also that I don't have great quality basses, just my American Peavey Millenium and my Squire PJ.

I'm kinda surprised by my findings, and maybe a little disappointed, cuz I like futzing with gear, and now I've found that all I need is my bass and a passive DI.

Should I be surprised at this?

I don't think that this is a very even test. How did you plug in the bass to the stereo? The stereo is probably adding it's sound to the signal. Like someone else posted, it's not all EQ, there could be compression, multiple amps/cabs, tube pre's etc. And I have to say the most cliche', the sound is in the player's hands! As far as DI's go, they all affect the sound, cheap passives are the worst.

 

[3NotesAbar]

I don't think that this is a very even test. How did you plug in the bass to the stereo? The stereo is probably adding it's sound to the signal. Like someone else posted, it's not all EQ, there could be compression, multiple amps/cabs, tube pre's etc. And I have to say the most cliche', the sound is in the player's hands! As far as DI's go, they all affect the sound, cheap passives are the worst.

+1. Best DI i know of in terms of transparency is probably the Radial JDI. Puts the finger to the test, but great tone is not impossible! Just keeping it real!