Double Bass EQ tips: David Gage Realist -> GK MB200

[Pings Bass]

Hey gang,

I'm trying to dial in my sound with a David Gage Realist into a Galien-Kruegger MB200 (micro head) with a GK Neo 112-ii cab.

This is a doubling rig; I have an AB/Y switch so I can switch between DB and BG.

I'm finding the realist has a lot of excess mid-range punch, so tonight in rehearsal I tried running with the contour switch on (+3db @ 50hz, -10db @ 500hz, +2db @ 7KHz), with and bass rolled off a bit to about 10 o'clock (60Hz, shelving, so pulls back the bass boost of the contour switch). This is the best sound I've had out of it for the DB, and it works OK for BG too.

I'm curious if anybody's playing a DB piezo through a GK head who might have tips. Or other EQ tips for the Realist. I may consider an EQ pedal inline before the AB/Y switch so I can keep the amp eq flat, but I'm really trying to keep the signal chain as simple as possible.

 

[Wasnex]

Hey gang,

I'm trying to dial in my sound with a David Gage Realist into a Galien-Kruegger MB200 (micro head) with a GK Neo 112-ii cab.

This is a doubling rig; I have an AB/Y switch so I can switch between DB and BG.

I'm finding the realist has a lot of excess mid-range punch, so tonight in rehearsal I tried running with the contour switch on (+3db @ 50hz, -10db @ 500hz, +2db @ 7KHz), with and bass rolled off a bit to about 10 o'clock (60Hz, shelving, so pulls back the bass boost of the contour switch). This is the best sound I've had out of it for the DB, and it works OK for BG too.

I'm curious if anybody's playing a DB piezo through a GK head who might have tips. Or other EQ tips for the Realist. I may consider an EQ pedal inline before the AB/Y switch so I can keep the amp eq flat, but I'm really trying to keep the signal chain as simple as possible.

Input impedance is 1Meg, so I would think it would be fine with the Realist.

I used to run a Realist with my 700RB/112 combo and it sounded pretty decent. I don't remember it being squawky or mid rangey. Actually I could dial it in to sound fairly HiFi. I realize it's a totally different amp, but the EQ centers are the same. 60hz, 250hz, 1khz, and 7khz. The Contour on the RB series is variable though.

I prefer to elevate my speaker to about waist level and put the cab behind me. I feel this reduces the coupling between the amp and the bass, so you can turn up more without feedback.

Consider an Empress ParaEQ. Use the amp to get your basic tone for both instruments, and use the Empress to deal with undesired resonance and additional tone shaping for the UB.

 

[Bisounourse]

This thread is helpfull as it has 'flat' settings for the MB 200, which is always a good starting point: GK MB200 "flat" settings

For amplifying my DB I use a similar setup; DB with a SoundClip through an MB200 paired with a Barefaced 112 (the BB2, with horn all up).
To get a decent sound what I do is this; start with the flat settings, I cut the bass a little bit more and add Low Mids to add 'body'. Treble and High Mids to taste.

I never doubled on that rig though... however, if I would have to do it, I'd just put in a Tone Hammer preamp through the Send/Return and engage it when I use the BG.

 

[Pings Bass]

Input impedance is 1Meg, so I would think it would be fine with the Realist.

Yeah, no issues with input at all. It's actually quite hot.

I used to run a Realist with my 700RB/112 combo and it sounded pretty decent. I don't remember it being squawky or mid rangey.

I wouldn't call it squawky. More like a very strong percussive attack that is moderated by scooping mids. If I were playing rockabilly, I might like it.

I prefer to elevate my speaker to about waist level and put the cab behind me.

Yep, got my cab on stand behind me, vertically oriented with horn up and angled up toward my head.

Consider an Empress ParaEQ. Use the amp to get your basic tone for both instruments, and use the Empress to deal with undesired resonance and additional tone shaping for the UB.

Yeah, I'm definitely thinking for best results I'll need some DB-only EQ. My "simplest signal chain that can work" tenet is getting more complex.

This thread is helpfull as it has 'flat' settings for the MB 200, which is always a good starting point: GK MB200 "flat" settings

Great thread, thanks. I forgot to mention I've got an fdeck HPF pre inline on this rig. In contrast to Francis, I'm getting better results with the scooped profile due to what I hear as a very elevated mids coming off my piezo.

Honestly I think I'm just struggling with DB amplification in general. I really love the sound of my bass until I plug it in. Plugged in, I just want something that doesn't annoy me. I probably just need to come to terms with the fact that a DB with a piezo through an amp is just a totally different tonal palette, one that (to my ear) screams "piezo." Then again, that's the tonal palette that modern audiences associate with the bass, so maybe I just need to get used to it.

 

[Jim Dedrick]

Yeah, no issues with input at all. It's actually quite hot.


I wouldn't call it squawky. More like a very strong percussive attack that is moderated by scooping mids. If I were playing rockabilly, I might like it.


Yep, got my cab on stand behind me, vertically oriented with horn up and angled up toward my head.


Yeah, I'm definitely thinking for best results I'll need some DB-only EQ. My "simplest signal chain that can work" tenet is getting more complex.


Great thread, thanks. I forgot to mention I've got an fdeck HPF pre inline on this rig. In contrast to Francis, I'm getting better results with the scooped profile due to what I hear as a very elevated mids coming off my piezo.

Honestly I think I'm just struggling with DB amplification in general. I really love the sound of my bass until I plug it in. Plugged in, I just want something that doesn't annoy me. I probably just need to come to terms with the fact that a DB with a piezo through an amp is just a totally different tonal palette, one that (to my ear) screams "piezo." Then again, that's the tonal palette that modern audiences associate with the bass, so maybe I just need to get used to it.

 

[Jim Dedrick]

You mentioned too much thump. I use a realist lifeline blended with a mic through AI Clarus. Sometimes I just use the lifeline if the room is not friendly to a mic. I had a thump I hated using Evah Pirazzis. After about a year went back to my 30 year old Spiros and thump is gone. Have you tried others strings?

 

[Pings Bass]

You mentioned too much thump. I use a realist lifeline blended with a mic through AI Clarus. Sometimes I just use the lifeline if the room is not friendly to a mic. I had a thump I hated using Evah Pirazzis. After about a year went back to my 30 year old Spiros and thump is gone. Have you tried others strings?

I've got dead spiros on there now, so... that's not it.

I've been putting off restringing, because there's never a good time to break in new strings. But maybe I should do that while my calendar is clear and report back.

That Clarus looks nice. I've got no way to blend mic into my signal without upgrading to something like that or adding yet more gear to my signal chain (mic pre-amp, phantom power, line mixer). My ideal would be to mic the bass through a decent FOH system and use the piezo thru my current rig for monitoring. But I rarely have decent FOH support, so my little rig usually has to carry the room.

 

[Wasnex]

Yeah, no issues with input at all. It's actually quite hot.


I wouldn't call it squawky. More like a very strong percussive attack that is moderated by scooping mids. If I were playing rockabilly, I might like it.


Yep, got my cab on stand behind me, vertically oriented with horn up and angled up toward my head.


Yeah, I'm definitely thinking for best results I'll need some DB-only EQ. My "simplest signal chain that can work" tenet is getting more complex.


Great thread, thanks. I forgot to mention I've got an fdeck HPF pre inline on this rig. In contrast to Francis, I'm getting better results with the scooped profile due to what I hear as a very elevated mids coming off my piezo.

Honestly I think I'm just struggling with DB amplification in general. I really love the sound of my bass until I plug it in. Plugged in, I just want something that doesn't annoy me. I probably just need to come to terms with the fact that a DB with a piezo through an amp is just a totally different tonal palette, one that (to my ear) screams "piezo." Then again, that's the tonal palette that modern audiences associate with the bass, so maybe I just need to get used to it.

Perhaps some clarification on which Realist you are using would be helpful. I used the original Realist which would be most like the Copperhead. I found it fairly close to the sound of the basses I ran it on, which was not always a good thing. The Copperhead picks up a lot of the body so it can be a bit woofy on a resonant bass.

It's been awhile, so I don't remember exactly how I ran the EQ, but I am sure it was some sort of mid scoop, especially since I was bowing quite a bit. I had to carefully balance the tweeter level as well.

A friend of mind also tried a Realist SoundClip and I found this to be the worst sounding pickup I have ever come across. We spent several days trying to dial it in with EQ and by moving it around on the bridge. He also bought a Fishman preamp with 10K input impedance, but nothing seemed to help.

The Realist Lifeline is the one that is integrated into a bridge adjuster. I haven't tried one, but I believe it is more focused and punchy than the Copperhead. A lot of people seem to like the Lifeline.

I think the HPF will be more useful if you run your amp on the floor. I never had any obvious problems that would have benefitted from an HPF with my amp elevated. But this can vary from bass to bass. I did have a couple of basses that liked to feed back at low frequencies and I fixed this by rolling up a towel and wedging it under the tail piece.

If you are going to double, I think it's fairly important to have separate gain and EQ for each instrument and some way to mute the UB. My last touring rig used an Ashley MX508 rack mixer for this purpose. I used Shure A95U line matching transformers so I could plug straight into the mic inputs. When I was ready to mute an instrument, I hit the Mic/Line switch. For clarification, the Mic/Line switch on the MX508 routed the signal from one input jack to another rather than acting as a pad. Using a rack mixer was ideal for me as I often switched between three instruments.

Since you are only switching between two instruments, I think the Empress ParaEQ will do what you need. I used to run an SWR Redhead with a 31-band graphic in the effects loop. I used an ABY to switch between BG and UB. When I switched to UB I engaged the graphic EQ, and when I went back to BG I bypassed the graphic EQ. This setup worked pretty well for me.

 

[Pings Bass]

Perhaps some clarification on which Realist you are using would be helpful. I used the original Realist which would be most like the Copperhead. I found it fairly close to the sound of the basses I ran it on, which was not always a good thing. The Copperhead picks up a lot of the body so it can be a bit woofy on a resonant bass.

It's a copperhead, and yeah, it's woofy!

I think the HPF will be more useful if you run your amp on the floor. I never had any obvious problems that would have benefitted from an HPF with my amp elevated. But this can vary from bass to bass. I did have a couple of basses that liked to feed back at low frequencies and I fixed this by rolling up a towel and wedging it under the tail piece.

I just always run this to save my amp the expense of amplifying subsonic frequencies and to clean up the sub 50hz mud.

If you are going to double, I think it's fairly important to have separate gain and EQ for each instrument and some way to mute the UB.

I've got separate gain on the ABY switch. I'm coming to terms with needing a separate EQ. The ABY mutes the instrument not being played.

Since you are only switching between two instruments, I think the Empress ParaEQ will do what you need. I used to run an SWR Redhead with a 31-band graphic in the effects loop. I used an ABY to switch between BG and UB. When I switched to UB I engaged the graphic EQ, and when I went back to BG I bypassed the graphic EQ. This setup worked pretty well for me.

This is pretty close to what I'm going to end up with, I think.

 

[Ric Vice]

I second the use of the Empress EQ DI it's a great piece of kit for an amplifier with inadequate EQ for a Double Bass. Not a Grace Felix mind you, but a great piece of gear. The new Headway EDB-2 H.E. looks like a incredible EQ with a lot of features that the Empress does not

provide i.e. a Notch Filter, Channel Switching, a separate Line Out, variable Impedance Buffering, Dual EQ Channels, Phantom Power, etc. I own a Headway EDB-2 and love it.

 

[Fretless55]

PDX pride! , but alas similar frustration in regards to amplification.

My set up is very much the same,Thompson hybrid with Spiro Mitts, Realist copper, fdeck 2M, GK MB200 into ... and here I’m lost.

My holy grail is to find a solution that would be “my original 1984 GK 200MB combo only louder”.

I’ll be interested in what ends up working for you.

 

[Steven Ayres]

One thing I do to moderate the copperhead midrange squawk is put a thin (1/16") pad between the bridge foot and the pickup, made from cork/rubber-blend automotive gasket material. This makes for better sound and I think it helps equalize stress on the piezo elements somewhat.

 

[Pings Bass]

One thing I do to moderate the copperhead midrange squawk is put a thin (1/16") pad between the bridge foot and the pickup, made from cork/rubber-blend automotive gasket material. This makes for better sound and I think it helps equalize stress on the piezo elements somewhat.

Ooh, that sounds like we're getting on to something... I'll do that when I restring. Thanks!

 

[Pings Bass]

I second the use of the Empress EQ DI it's a great piece of kit for an amplifier with inadequate EQ for a Double Bass. Not a Grace Felix mind you, but a great piece of gear. The new Headway EDB-2 H.E. looks like a incredible EQ with a lot of features that the Empress does not

provide i.e. a Notch Filter, Channel Switching, a separate Line Out, variable Impedance Buffering, Dual EQ Channels, Phantom Power, etc. I own a Headway EDB-2 and love it.

View attachment 3697455

zoiks that's fancy!

 

[Pings Bass]

PDX pride! , but alas similar frustration in regards to amplification.

My set up is very much the same,Thompson hybrid with Spiro Mitts, Realist copper, fdeck 2M, GK MB200 into ... and here I’m lost.

My holy grail is to find a solution that would be “my original 1984 GK 200MB combo only louder”.

I’ll be interested in what ends up working for you.

I'm gonna try the pad as Steven suggests, new strings (I'm due anyway), and I'll probably end up with an EQ exclusive to the DB.

 

[Keyser Soze]

The old school Fishman Pro Platinum EQ can be had used for less than a hundred bucks. It works wonders with the copperhead/GK combo. It's a Swiss Army knife; tons of useful features. Find one of those, try it first. If you don't find it useful you can flip it for what you paid for it. I'm betting it'll work wonders for you. Can be powered by 48v phantom w/ XLR cable from house console or battery or adapter. Really nothing not to like about it.

edit: There looks to be one available in the classifieds (no affiliation.)
For Sale - Fishman PRO-EQ Platinum Bass

 

[Pings Bass]

The old school Fishman Pro Platinum EQ can be had used for less than a hundred bucks. It works wonders with the copperhead/GK combo. It's a Swiss Army knife; tons of useful features. Find one of those, try it first. If you don't find it useful you can flip it for what you paid for it. I'm betting it'll work wonders for you. Can be powered by 48v phantom w/ XLR cable from house console or battery or adapter. Really nothing not to like about it.

edit: There looks to be one available in the classifieds (no affiliation.)
For Sale - Fishman PRO-EQ Platinum Bass

BLOOP it's gone!! Looks cool though, maybe I'll check one out if another comes up. Definitely does more than I need, but for DB-only gigs I could easily go ampless with something like that.

 

[Ric Vice]

When Headway begins selling the EDB-2 H.E. models, they generally drop the price of the previous model which would be the EDB-2. Personally, I'd look for one of those. I bought one through Amazon this summer
for $100.00 of the list price. It was a great deal for a full featured box.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I use the MB200 with a Realist copper on the regular, plugged into a 1x12 Eden cab. For awhile i would use the Contour but recently realized i cut through a band mix much better when it is turned off. Generally, i roll off the Bass and Low Mid to taste to get to where i want to be. Since the Realist can be a bass heavy pickup and there is no HPF on that head, i need to make a heavy cut to the Bass to remove some mud. Rolling off the Low Mid does a little of the same plus removes some of the piezo honk of the pickup. I have played many a time with this setup and no preamp in the chain.

When it comes to putting a unit in front of the MB200, i have had some success with the Headway EDB-2 from a buffering standpoint. This boosts the input impedance from 1 meg to 5 or 20 and definitely has an effect on the overall tone. Sort of cleans it up a bit, but hard to explain. The EDB-2 also has somewhat of an HPF effect so removes some of the mud, and the notch filter can be used to zero in on any frequency you don't like and want to remove. For quick in and out gigs i don't mess with the EDB-2, but when playing a few sets i will put in the chain to give me some further options during the gig.

 

[Pings Bass]

I use the MB200 with a Realist copper on the regular, plugged into a 1x12 Eden cab. For awhile i would use the Contour but recently realized i cut through a band mix much better when it is turned off. Generally, i roll off the Bass and Low Mid to taste to get to where i want to be. Since the Realist can be a bass heavy pickup and there is no HPF on that head, i need to make a heavy cut to the Bass to remove some mud. Rolling off the Low Mid does a little of the same plus removes some of the piezo honk of the pickup. I have played many a time with this setup and no preamp in the chain.

When it comes to putting a unit in front of the MB200, i have had some success with the Headway EDB-2 from a buffering standpoint. This boosts the input impedance from 1 meg to 5 or 20 and definitely has an effect on the overall tone. Sort of cleans it up a bit, but hard to explain. The EDB-2 also has somewhat of an HPF effect so removes some of the mud, and the notch filter can be used to zero in on any frequency you don't like and want to remove. For quick in and out gigs i don't mess with the EDB-2, but when playing a few sets i will put in the chain to give me some further options during the gig.

I'm running an fdeck HPF-Pre in front of the amp, so I've got HPF and hi-Z buffering already happening. I can definitely see upgrading that to a fully featured DI with HPF and EQ someday. Until then I think I'm going to end up just adding an EQ to the signal chain.

I always imagine a day when there's always good FOH support so I can go ampless all the time, which would be the excuse to get a good DI. But that day has yet to come, obviously.