Ernie Ball Music Man Stingray Input Jack Discovery?

[jgregpegleg]

I've seen a few threads about replacement jack questions for a EBMM Stingray and am posting this to hear of others experiences and see if anyone has had a similar experience and more importantly, save someone some troubleshooting. I have yet to hear back any resolution from EB, but they are timely in response and very cooperative and friendly.
I apologize if I am using wrong terminology. Hopefully my pics will help with anything unclear in my wording.
I have a "92 EBMM Stingray and recently replaced my jack due to excessive rust.
I received the jack from EB, part #M05160. The same part # I've seen listed on here as a replacement.
Upon install, I had no signal from the bass.
After closer inspection I found that a plastic dot present on the original jack's switch pin was absent on the replacement.
The plastic dot on the original seemed to prevent the 9v current from flowing back through the cable to the amp.
Attached to this post are:
>the switch pin removed from the original jack detailing a plastic dot on the switch pin.
>pics of my original jack.
>the original jack's switchcraft part number.
>and the new jack with a piece of electrical tape on the switch pin where the dot would be.

 

[walterw]

first i've seen of the whole "plastic dot" thing, but current MM jacks are indeed kinda weird.

they're the "black box" type with extra contacts because they use the jack to switch on the 9V positive voltage to the preamp, rather than do what everybody else does which is use a plain TRS jack that switches the 9V negative to ground when you plug in, something that needs far fewer moving parts.

i've converted a whole lot of these to use the way more robust and reliable switchcraft #12B jack (no fragile plastic box) to do the preamp switching the "normal" way.

you connect all the red 9V+ wires together, then fish out the one black ground wire that's coming from the battery and run it to the ring terminal, so it only connects when the cable is plugged in.

the one tradeoff is that you now get like a half-second of weird power-up noise when you plug in, but you shouldn't be plugging or unplugging with the amp signal live anyway.

 

[RobbieK]

current MM jacks are indeed kinda weird

they use the jack to switch on the 9V positive

Wow. When did they change to this? I've not come across one like this yet. (Although I've stopped doing regular tech work lately.)

Why on earth would they do this? (Pun intended )

Am I cynical saying EB just want to sell genuine jacks as a spare part?

Or is there an electronic reason...? Walter, from the factory, the negative battery lead is definitely wired to earth, right?

 

[walterw]

Wow. When did they change to this? I've not come across one like this yet.

Oh they've been this way for years, maybe decades.

Or is there an electronic reason...? Walter, from the factory, the negative battery lead is definitely wired to earth, right?

My guess is like I said, after conversion there is s little bit of momentary power-up noise right when you plug in.

(And yep, stock the battery negative is bundled with all the other black wires and run right to ground.)

 

[ThudThudThud]

I know this is somewhat troll-like, and this is the kind of pedantry up with which one should not put, but it's an OUTPUT jack.
Sorry.

 

[jgregpegleg]

Well, hopefully this post, with my findings and the good information from Walter, saves someone else some effort when swapping out parts. I am going to switch the prong out from the old jack to the new one.
I got a schematic from EB today and found that it does not match my preamp. My bass is a '92. A yellow sticker on the back of my bass pot says "APR 13 '02". My last response was asking about any revision history for the circuit board. I should hear back tomorrow. At a glance, it looks like my board is missing some components that may buffer for the the new jack style to work. Below is a pic of the schematic and my board.

 

[Blank Frank]

Thanks jgregpegleg and walterw for posting this! I have been having problems with my input jack for years, and now going to attempt to fix it. curious to hear if it solved your problem?

 

[detracti]

This is an old thread, but it is on topic. My Stingray Special has just this one problem with this jack, and it is because the switch that is supposed to provide power to the preamp doesn't make good contact when you plug in.

I opened it up when I first got it, and bent the metal tang so that it should make better contact, but a couple months later, it is back to clicking on and off when I wiggle the plug.

My take on it is that the jack is just poorly designed junk. It is a Switchcraft product, and I'm figuring EB just found what they figured was the best solution. I've searched exhaustively and there are plenty of switched 1/4" jacks that open the circuit when you plug in, but very few that close the circuit.

Two options that I can see:
1. Get a 1/4" stereo jack, and connect the power lead to the ring. Then when you plug in, it completes the circuit to the amp. I think most active basses must work this way, and it would make a far more reliable power connection. The only problem with this is if you're using one of these new wireless units that has a three-conductor plug, it may mess that up (explains why some of them claim not to work with active electronics.

2. This: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049BOCTQ
I suspect this is discontinued, because I do not see it on the Switchcraft website. But it will do the trick, provide power to the preamp when plugged in, without interfering with wireless units. It could of course wind up with the same issue as the stock one, but this looks like a far better design, as the two metal pieces that connect are lined up straight and the contact area is more solid. (The interface on the stock pickup is off-centered and kind of flimsy).

Ordered, and will be here this Friday. I'll try it first, and then if it ends up being problematic, I'll try the stereo jack approach.

 

[RobbieK]

it is back to clicking on and off when I wiggle the plug

Are you quite sure it's the battery connection that's faulty? IME, a battery that is cutting in and out will cause much more than just a click. More like a loud pop, even with your amp at moderate levels. Perhaps, it's the tip connector that is at fault and the signal is cutting in and out. Either way, you are right mate, it's time for a new jack...

1. Get a 1/4" stereo jack, and connect the power lead to the ring. Then when you plug in, it completes the circuit to the amp. I think most active basses must work this way, and it would make a far more reliable power connection.

Yes, most active basses (and pedals) work this way. Make sure you have the negative battery wire running to the jack, not the positive. This may mean a little bit or re-wiring, depending on the board design and layout etc. As I said a couple of years ago, I can't think of a reason this wouldn't work, but that's not to say there isn't one! I really can't think why an opamp pre that is biased to 4.5V would cause trouble if you made this mod, but without the actual preamp on my bench I can't be 100% sure.

2. This: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049BOCTQ
I suspect this is discontinued, because I do not see it on the Switchcraft website. But it will do the trick, provide power to the preamp when plugged in, without interfering with wireless units.

If you use this jack, be sure there is no shielding material/paint that can short on that switch part. It sticks right out the side there. Remember this will be at 9V and will cook the battery quick smart if earthed by mistake.

FWIW, I've used [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]on my own basses over the years where a regular trs-earth arrangement won't work, and they've been fine. I'm not sure they'd fit in a football jack side hole though...

I've searched exhaustively and there are plenty of switched 1/4" jacks that open the circuit when you plug in, but very few that close the circuit.

FYI, and FWIW, this is because the switch is most often used to short the tip to earth when the the plug is pulled out. This happens at virtually all audio inputs on amps, mixers, etc, etc so the input is muted when not plugged in.

 

[detracti]

Are you quite sure it's the battery connection that's faulty? IME, a battery that is cutting in and out will cause much more than just a click. More like a loud pop, even with your amp at moderate levels. Perhaps, it's the tip connector that is at fault and the signal is cutting in and out. Either way, you are right mate, it's time for a new jack...

....

If you use this jack, be sure there is no shielding material/paint that can short on that switch part. It sticks right out the side there. Remember this will be at 9V and will cook the battery quick smart if earthed by mistake.

FWIW, I've used [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]on my own basses....

I'm sure it is the power.

Yes, good point. The outer half of the switch will connect to ground. So as long as there is clearance, it should be fine.

...yes I found those on stewmac after posting here and ordered a couple. Ime, it is good to have multiple options available before I fire up the soldering iron

 

[detracti]

All options I could find finally got here. Two would work and are a better design than the original, but they are too big to fit in the hole, and I wasn't about to attempt to enlargen it. These WON't work:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049BOCTQ

It might be possible to force-fit the first one by taking a flat file to the corners, and flattening them a bit. The fit seems very close.

The second one, the switch just comes out too far, and you'd have to bend everything inward to get it in.

So, I used a regular stereo jack, with signal (white) to the tip, power (gray) to the ring, and black to ground:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079QMY55P

This will break your three-conductor wireless bugs, but Line6 included an "L-shaped" mono 1/4" male to 1/4" female adapter with their wireless, and when I use that, everything is fine.

And no more popping in and out. I know I have a solid connection from power to the preamp now . No more instability when I take her to open mics.

 

[detracti]

...so I had to try filing down the black one. So this one works, provided you take a file down the corners:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And it works even with wireless, because supplying the power relies on a switch closing, rather than shorting the ring to ground. Fabulous.

 

[Hypercaffium]

...so I had to try filing down the black one. So this one works, provided you take a file down the corners:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And it works even with wireless, because supplying the power relies on a switch closing, rather than shorting the ring to ground. Fabulous.

Is your bass still working? Mine started to give problems. Again.