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Double Bass eub purchase to match accoustic DB

rodsnhawgs

rodsnhawgs

Custom builder. G-ratio basses
Supporting Member
Nov 23, 2010
332
278
U.S., WV
www.gratiobasses.com
#1
I know this has been beat to death in these forums...however, even after looking extensively, I can't seem to find the answer(s) to my questions. And, before I get flamed for looking at an EUB rather than an acoustic DB, please just indulge me...

Also, I used to play acoustic DB years ago, so I realize an EUB must first be played like a DB in order to have a chance to sound like DB

I have time for the research and the budget (at least I think I do) to buy a decent EUB. The problem seems to be in narrowing down a huge list of manufacturers/luthiers to a manageable number of instruments to consider. My guess is there are actually two-three basic parts to this research - I. the EUB itself; II. the strings; III. the amp.
Here's what I'm (starting) to look for:

Part I.

1. I would prefer something on a stand rather than a "stick"
2. 4 or 5 string (I play 5 fretted electric and 5 fretless)
3. It must have tone controls on the EUB (looks like the KYDDs
don't offer controls)
4. Must be able to produce a sound "close" to a typical
acoustic upright DB. I don't have a problem with re-
stringing it if need be.
5. Main use would be in a jazz ensemble (no need for bowing
as a requisite), but may be used in some limited country gigs
6. Decent case is a must
7. Don't want to break the bank...is it possibe for $2-3K?

Part II.

What strings are going to be required on an EUB to make the sound?

Part III.

My main electric rig is and Eden WT-300 head w/ 410XLT cab. My guess is this setup is going to be too "hot" for the EUB tone I'm needing/looking for. So...if that's true, what am I going to need to run the EUB?

Finally, how...where...is the best place to search TB for EUB's for sale?

Thanks for all your wisdom in advance.
 
#2
Hi Rod.
If you don't mind, I have a few questions for you.

Why do you want tone controls on the EUB?
DB players don't have tone controls on their instrument.

Do you want an EUB with a regular DB scale? (around 42 inches)

Are you ready to follow lessons with a DB teacher?

Please keep in mind you'll *never* sound DB-like if you don't have proper DB technique, no matter what you play on. (even an acoustic DB)

Strings and amps are irrelevant at the moment.
 
#3
Francois:

Thanks for the quick reply.

Re tone controls, I guess I'm used to my electric gear and am presuming there will be a need to "dial in" the EUB...perhaps not from your answer...

Re scale, THAT is a good question - one I have noticed in my search but no little about when it comes to EUBs...what would you recommend?

Re lessons, yes I would if need be. I actually edited my original post to address (partially) address this part of your response.

Thanks.
 
#4
I wish you luck..

UB guys (yes I am one) get really nutty with questions like this.

----

Add on question...

Are you willing to use any effects? (this will also make the purists cringe)

------

I'll be the first to bring up the Ashbory is as close as you're going to find... has great freak factor too.
 
#6
MNAirHead: Yep...I can see this is gonna get interesting :O

Effects...hadn't even entered my mind...not sure of the need but anything is possible...why would effects be needed to achieve a traditional acoustic DB tone (if my primary instrument search is to achieve that tone....all else being equal)??

Agree on the freak factor with the Ashbory. Although I'm not sure if a full DB scale is needed (or not), most likely an 18" scale is probably not enough...

Thanks.

p.s. I like the idea of bassists driving VWs...would love to build a lowered old bus :)
 
#7
rodsnhawgs said:
Francois:

Thanks for the quick reply.

Re tone controls, I guess I'm used to my electric gear and am presuming there will be a need to "dial in" the EUB...perhaps not from your answer...

Re scale, THAT is a good question - one I have noticed in my search but no little about when it comes to EUBs...what would you recommend?

Re lessons, yes I would if need be. I actually edited my original post to address (partially) address this part of your response.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
On my Carruthers EUB, there was a preamp for the stock pickup system. (volume, bass, mid, treble plus mid sweep frequency)
I didn't like the stock system and removed everything.
I now use a wing piezo pickup on a home-made bridge, direct to a preamp. (on the floor)
The pot I use most is the volume, but it's okay for me if it's not on the instrument itself.

You'll likely to get a more DB-like tone with a regular DB scale.
However, it'll be more difficult for you to get used to it, and furthermore to switch between the shorter BG scale and the longer EUB one.

The Eminence EUB (to my taste) is attractive, is not too much stick-like, has some resonance chamber, etc.
There's a megathread here about it.
 
#8
I just put an order in this past Monday for a BSX Allegro Acoustic 4 string. I've been researching basses for the past 6 months and narrowed it down to 4 basses: BSX Allegro, AlterEgo, Ray Ramirez Caribbean Elite, and the Eminence. The BSX and Ray Ramirez would be brand new builds. The AlterEgo was a floor model and the Eminence is a factory build. Both the Eminence and the BSX are around the same price and the Ray Ramirez and AlterEgo were about the same as well. I went with the BSX because of a vid I saw on YouTube of Brian Bromberg playing a great bass solo. Do a search on YouTube for Brian Bromberg Cataloupe Island.

I plan on picking up the Simandl book and a bow and learn how to play the bass. As I study from the book I'll be searching for a teacher. I'll be playing jazz and latin with the occasional arco.
 
#9
It's obvious that I'm going to say AlterEGO. But it is the one which offers the most of your requirements. The Acoustic model is out of your budget, but the babyEGO with steel strings will do you what you need and be pretty close to your budget. As a double bass/EUB guy, the Eden stuff is to hot for my taste. A GK rig will tone things down quite a bit, or maybe try Acoustic Image?
Best, Rick
 
#10
I think he should not worry about amps for the moment.
Getting the instrument and learning to play it the proper way seems the priority to me.
Hi Eden stuff will be enough for the learning stage.
If he decides to keep the EUB (many BG players dropped the DB after a short while), he could think then about new gear.
Just my $0.02.
 
#11
Now we're getting somewhere!! ...thanks guys. Patas75, your research and choices are impressive.

I'm sure there's more insight out there. This is a valuable discussion that I would guess has lots of application for many others in the market. Let's make sure it's well-explored.

@ Francois - I agree with your input re the amp as a secondary factor (at this point). But, as part of the entire tonal package, I would like to keep that part open for discussion.
 
#13
Reason I asked about effects is that there are some multi effect processors that can alter attack, EQ, compression etc (I now the purists are freaking out at this)

In reality MOST BG guys ditch upright... unless it's close to electric...

I'm not sure if yu're aware of this... there are scales that are the same as a 34" electric.. they may not sound "upright" but will shorten your learning curve.

=====

I tortally say go EUB... It has enough freak factor to make good for gigging.

Compared to my upright, they're tons easier to transport and maintain...

I'd remind you some type of marker will help as the necks feel totally different.
 
#16
@ Francois: No...I'm in a sort of "no man's land" regarding good music instruments - hence my query here. I'm hoping to run across some in my travels to larger cities.

I really hate to buy an(y) instrument without playing it first, however, I have done that in the past with success.

Since I'm in no "real hurry" to buy a finer EUB, I've considered something like a Dean Edge to simply have one to practice and occasionally gig with. My concern (as my guess is you'll agree) is the muscle memory and completely different feel the Edge would provide as opposed to what I might eventually purchase as my primary EUB.

At this point, my research is leaning me towards these (in no particular order):
1. AlterEGO Babyego - really like the looks and reviews. Uncertain about the scale
length and tone. Also seems to be the most expensive with the dollar/Euro
exchange. Looks likes a custom-build so there are no dealers and certainly
very few around. But...I really dig this puppy for some reason and am drawn to it.
Maybe they'll make me a real deal to get a little more exposure :D
2. BSX Allegro, mini Allegro, or Fip Bass - the mini and Flip each have shorter scale
solid bodys so I'm not sure how that might work - they look promising though.
3. Eminence or Eminence RN - Appears to be leading the pack at this point since it
actually has all the components of a carved DB, a long scale, and an available stand.
The removable neck is a great feature for travel/transport, but I'm a bit concerned
about how that joint might wear and/or effect intonation and playability over time.
 
#17
You meant the Dean Pace I guess? (the Edge is a regular BG)

That said, how about a fretless?
Not much difference between the Pace and a fretless short of playing vertically.
A fretless with nylon tapewounds (and even a piece of foam under the strings) could do the job to some point. (you already have a fretless, no?)
 
#18
Francois Blais said:
You meant the Dean Pace I guess? (the Edge is a regular BG)

That said, how about a fretless?
Not much difference between the Pace and a fretless short of playing vertically.
A fretless with nylon tapewounds (and even a piece of foam under the strings) could do the job to some point. (you already have a fretless, no?)
Click to expand...

yep - Pace...my bad

Exactly my thoughts on the Pace - not really much difference from a fretless BG. Yes, I have a nice fretless 5. Of course, its function and tone are completely set apart from what the EUB will do in the mix.

Thanks for your interest and input.
 
#19
Bought a slightly used Eminence RN from a fellow TBer. First impression is very good. My Eden rig may indeed be a little hot for it but we'll see. May run the 410 cab w/ another head and change strings eventually. For now, just getting the DB feel again after many years playing exclusively BG. I'll report as things progress. For now though, I'm very pleased with the Eminence. :)
 

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