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F# string tension/playability?

#41
Roland777 said:
How this transfers onto low tunings, I still don't know. If I were to use a .175 on the bottom for F#, I'd probably go with the 40-set.
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I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but I played around with A LOT of string tension calculations in my futile search for my perfect set (luckily it led me to learn that the answer I sought was in increasing scale length by several inches).

Anyway, in regards to low tunings, or even standard tunings when a B string is involved, the rule of thumb tends to become more of a rule of wrist (anyone get that? lol) in that the jump needed is much more significant. If youre using a .110 as your standard E string, jumping up .020 or even .025 is not nearly enough, at least for the sake of balance. That jump gets even more massive when you start getting into low tunings.

For example, on my bass, I use a .165 for G#. I can jump that up to a .195 without throwing off the balance of my set (in fact, it would bring it into a better balance), point being that my next string (C#) is a .120 and the ideal jump at my low tuning from that to my G# string could easily be .055 or more... now I'm no mathemetician, but to me it seems like you can use a rule of thumb for the first 4 (or the first sets of two) but the 5th stands alone, and distances itself further from the pack the lower you tune....

What the hell am I talking about? I dunno, maybe I should just go home now :smug:
 
#42
conical johnson said:
I couldn't find any mention of what the actual scale they use is, only that it's "extra long". I wish they would just give a measurement!

20hz, if you just want the feel of the string to be tight, you could use avery heavy gauge string for the F#. A heavier gauge might make the lowest notes so thick as to be indistinguashable from each other, though, so you could either do some really long scale, like maybe 38"-40", or a fanned scale, so the lowest strings are this long, but the higher strings are regular length.
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I think 37" is sufficient for F#.
 
#43
Matt Fat Cat said:
I think 37" is sufficient for F#.
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Sure, if 39.5" is for E0, as in the Knuckle Quake. When you measure up 2 frets on the Quake where F#0 is found, it puts you at a hair over 35". So 37" would be an improvement for F#0 in this respect, though it would suck for E0 which can work on 39.5".

There really is no subsitute for appropriate scale length if you want good flexible tone options and intonation for real low notes.
 
#46
greenboy said:
Sure, if 39.5" is for E0, as in the Knuckle Quake. When you measure up 2 frets on the Quake where F#0 is found, it puts you at a hair over 35". So 37" would be an improvement for F#0 in this respect, though it would suck for E0 which can work on 39.5".

There really is no subsitute for appropriate scale length if you want good flexible tone options and intonation for real low notes.
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Referring to fanned fret... 37" F# is sufficient.
 
#48
Matt Fat Cat said:
Don't think I wanna play a 42-44" scale F# 7 string bass... don't think my arms are long enuff.
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Me neither, though I won't entirely discount it until I've tried it ; }

My experience with the 39.5" Knuckle Quake tuned an octave below a standard 4-string was that reach and instant adaptation was not an issue, though I am not a giant by any stretch of the imagination. Skip's bass for one had the upper horn situated so that the nut and tuning pegs were as close to my body as is possible. Further analysis on the situation showed me that a low B (same note as found on conventional 5-string bass) on the low A string - 2 frets up - was 35" from the bridge, as was F#0 on the E string.

Easy pickin's! ; }
 
#49
Yeah I'm thinking long scale (36 or 37") and fanned frets for the bass I'm going to have built in the new year...

How does knuckle get away with 39" scale without slanting the bridge and fanned frets? super light guage strings up there?
 
#51
20Hz said:
Yeah I'm thinking long scale (36 or 37") and fanned frets for the bass I'm going to have built in the new year...
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Yo 20,

A buddy has a 36.5" non-fanned from Robbie of RIM commisioned and just about complete. I tried to talk him into going .75" per course fanned, but he was worried. I'm not though - it took all of ten minutes to deal effectively with a Dingwall. I hardly noticed the difference feelwise, but sure did notice the difference on a low B, and then downtuned to A. Voice of God indeed - though Skip's Knuckles take that to another level yet.
 
#52
greenboy said:
the same gauges as a shorter standard-tuned bass. - just longer. That's why it sounds more articulate and focused at very low pitches, and plays so well with a standard touch.
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This is more of a "basses" question, but while we're on the subject, how wide are the oscillations of a long-scale bass's strings on low notes as compared to a 4-string in standard tuning, for example?
 
#53
lemur821 said:
This is more of a "basses" question, but while we're on the subject, how wide are the oscillations of a long-scale bass's strings on low notes as compared to a 4-string in standard tuning, for example?
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Missed this - the excursion (width of oscillations) is slightly less on a Quake's low strings than on a standard tuned 4 as there is generally more tension on it than most.

If the tension were the same on a long scale instrument as on a standard scale instrument there would indeed be more excursion, but not by much.
 
#54
Well, I've got a 35" scale neck through 6 string bass. I want to tune it to F# and at the minute, I'm thinking the way to go is .175 -.130 -.105 -.085 -.055 -.040

That way I think I'm hovering around the 35-40lb of tension mark. Is that right? And hopefully it won't bend my neck out of shape...
 
#55
Bit more sensible would be .100 and .070 on the E and A-strings, other than that, you're fine.

As far as bending necks - in total, that set will have less tension than your average 6-string set, so you have no problem tuning it up to pitch.
 

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