Facedown Bass Cab - good or bad idea?

[Milo Spleen]

I remember aiming my Bassman backwards toward a cinder block wall in an auditorium/gymnasium, thinking it would fill the room with THUNDEROUS bass. The result was horrendous, and would have been no matter which way I aimed it. Bad room for a rock band.

 

[jnewmark]

Get one of these.

 

[Hasty]

Acoustic Image used to make cabs that did this, and they sounded pretty cool. I have tried it with regular bass cabs, and the sound was worse than stacking the cabs in the normal fashion.

I think that having the driver shooting down could have an impact on how the cone centers in the voice coil gap. This could have a negative impact on performance and power handling. If you decide to try it, be conservative with how hard you push the down-firing cab...or maybe just don't.

I've got an AI TEN2 with the down firing speaker. On Double Bass is sounds phenomenal... with electric bass it sounds "pretty good". I always find myself adjusting the Room Coupling switch to 50% when using electric bass. That cuts the downfiring speak to 50% output. To my ears it just gets boomy and then becomes an HPF conundrum and a hassle.

All this to say, the down firing cab is nice for DB but there are better options for me when playing electric. So I imagine using a cab not designed for this would probably be even less pleasing to me.

 

[Tom Kinter]

I recall these from the 60s:

 

[vvvmmm]

"imported marble top", lol

Yeah, set yer beer there.

 

[FullumMusic]

I think most of the downward facing subs in stereo speakers aren't to rumble the floor. It's probably because very low frequencies (around 80Hz and under) are omnidirectional. You don't need to point the sub out at the stereo focal point like the woofers and tweeters.

And pointing the cab down at the stage probably won't have the effect you're looking for. It would suggest the speaker will put the sound into the air gap between it and the stage. Then that audio would then vibrate the stage, and then those vibrations would travel from the stage, to the floor of the venue, and then up through the audience's rubber soled shoes, and into their bodies.

But if you think about it, if your cab is facing the "proper" direction out, it's already sitting on the stage, and the enclosure's vibrations are already vibrating the stage.

However, if you really want to go crazy experimenting with ways to make the audience feel the bass more, you could consider flying one of your cabinets from the ceiling above the dance floor and pointing it almost straight down. People will feel it more because everyone has a straight line of flight from the driver to their bodies. They don't have humans in between them and the source soaking up the sound. Google "Flown Subs" and see pro sound engineers and acousticians set up PA systems at venues and dance clubs utilizing flown subs.

The downside to this is, it probably still won't work like you were hoping. Flown subs need to be carefully designed and integrated into the space they're in and the PA they're part of. Just throwing a cabinet above the audience facing down ain't really the same. It'll introduce all sorts of phase issues with the cabinets coming from the stage. You might need to set a crossover at about 80Hz and have everything above go to the stage cabs and below go to the flown cab. If positioned incorrectly, you could introduce some standing waves that will make the room sound like isht and probably cause feedback issues. There's a really big safety and liability issue with having a giant bass cab hanging above people's heads. And good luck explaining to a venue that you're gonna hang a speaker cabinet from their ceiling for your set.

I think the best way to make people feel the bass more is to have more bass. Something like bi-amping with the crossover really low, about 82Hz. Send the top of the crossover to your regular amp rig, and the bottom of the crossover to its own huge amp and a subwoofer and only pump out those super-lows through it. (The low E of a 4 string bass is at 41.02Hz. 82 will send the first octave of notes on a 4 string to the sub).

 

[Redbrangus]

I hope everyone here understands that there is big difference between the situation the OP inquired about -- a speaker directly coupled to the floor -- and one that is merely pointed at it.

 

[Redbrangus]

If you want an audience to "feel it", you gotta move air -- just shaking the floor or the walls or the barware would contribute very little to the audience experience, IMHO.

I provided sound reinforcement for a deaf dance troop several times. They didn't want or need any special "shakers", but they did want the bass turned up in the main system, as well as in the minimal monitor system provided. Once you move enough air, 'most everything moves.

 

[FullumMusic]

If you want an audience to "feel it", you gotta move air -- just shaking the floor or the walls or the barware would contribute very little to the audience experience, IMHO.

I provided sound reinforcement for a deaf dance troop several times. They didn't want or need any special "shakers", but they did want the bass turned up in the main system, as well as in the minimal monitor system provided. Once you move enough air, 'most everything moves.

I had a deaf friend who loved coming to my shows. She said most of the times her friends' bands were boring because, obviously, being deaf, she couldn't hear anything. But my electronic music was insanely sub heavy and it shook her to the point where she could dance. Good times.

 

[logdrum]

MY AI Clarus Combo had a downward firing 10 woofer but the amp had tilt legs and the rubber stoppers/legs were also thick like over 1 inch and there was some space if you did not use the tilt legs. I almost always use the tilt legs which tilted it about 15 degrees

 

[waveman]

I think you would be better off with subs along with PA/House Speakers

 

[ole Jason]

I love the downward firing AI cabs for upright bass. I was never all that enamored with them for electric though. The one I had tended to sound a little weird with electric.

 

[Wasnex]

My experience was with the original AI Contra. We had the matching extension as well. I used the combo by itself and I thought it sounded great with electric and upright in low volume settings. Although it sounded good, I did not think it was particularly transparent...I.E. it imposed somewhat of a character on the sound.

The person who ordered them intended to use them in big band with one on each side of the stage. They were not loud enough though. When pushed hard, the amp would go into protect mode and go silent for a second or two (very distracting). He also tried using both cabs side by side, but it was still not loud enough, so the Contra was relegated to jazz combo gigs where it was great IMHO.

The down-firing woofer created a unique and very desirable effect IMHO. It created the sensation that the lows were not localized and were coming at you in sort of a wall of sound. It felt sort of like being surrounded by the lows.

I have seen quite a few complaints that the sound gets diffuse very quickly in more reverberant spaces. I have experienced this problem many times with a traditional rig, and I don't ever remember it being any worse with the Contra, but it was long ago. I believe this problem is why AI eventually abandoned the down firing woofer.

The Contra wasn't really loud enough to create any sort of tactile sensation from massive lows.

 

[Wasnex]

If you are interested in creating tactile sensation, I suggest reviewing this article...and I think you will be surprised.

Invalid Link Removed

I think it's important to keep in mind that in most circumstances, sound quality should take priority over tactile sensation. To create strong tactile sensation requires lots of volume. In order to do it with balanced tone, the entire mix needs to be loud.

There are times and places where loud is appreciated and even desired. In general I think audiences and patrons tend to appreciate bands that can put on a good show at a relatively low volume. In my experience bands that figure this out are likely to get more work.

There is also the matter of hearing damage. Although loud music can sound and feel awesome, hearing damage occurs from a result of high SPL and exposure duration. As the volume goes up, the duration needed for hearing damage decreases. At super high SPL, hearing damage is pretty much instantaneous.

As someone who worked full-time as a musician, I wore hearing protection almost any time I was performing or practicing music. IMHO, the sounds sucks with even the best hearing protection. I wore custom molds with either ER15 or ER20 filters, and the sound was still awful. But if you experience major hearing loss, the sound you hear will suck all the time. I strongly recommend wearing hearing protection to reduce hearing loss.

 

[Doug Parent]

I can think of one downstairs neighbor I had in the past where this approach would have been justified.

 

[Hasty]

I think it's important to keep in mind that in most circumstances, sound quality should take priority over tactile sensation.

^This^.022× 10²³

 

[Vitrius Humor]

Subwoofer is the only way to get the sound you can feel...and that's going through the PA system. BTW, the subwoofer needs to be on the ground (I went to a church where they had the subwoofers suspended in the rafters; could not FEEL that bass!!)

 

[Vitrius Humor]

This would get that sound if you could find one!

I had one! I was a god!

 

[LuckyScott]

I’ve got 800 watts and 8 ten inch speakers. If I turn that monster up it rattles the floor, the stage, my teeth, and the chest cavity of everyone in the front row.

 

[vvvmmm]

I can think of one downstairs neighbor I had in the past where this approach would have been justified.

I got married and moved into a really nice four-flat with wood floors back in the 90's. About 6 months in, the upstairs neighbor got a dog and didn't keep the nails clipped - it was a nightmare and they would promise to fix it but never did. Clackclackclack. The landlord looked the other way on the illegal dog, altho' it was a "no pets" lease building.

So, after about a half week of that, I moved a bookshelf to the middle of the room and put a Grafyx SP10 speaker (stereo speakers known for their volume) on top facing up about 6" below the ceiling, cranked The Clash at 100w. and went to the store for an hour one evening.

The whole building was pissed, as was the landlord, but the dog was clipped and crated for the 6 months left on my lease.

Yes, I can be a poopie-head.