Factors on Basses to do low action

[umefie]

Hello, why can some basses do low action better, e.g(not having fret buzz even if it has a very low action). and why can some basses not do it? What are the factors that enable it to have low action?

Also, let's say 2 basses are settled up professionally(so no problems with the fretboard, nut, etc), does that mean that they are equal in terms of the amount of fret buzz? (assuming that string action is the same with both).

TYIA!

 

[Lobster11]

Two factors are the ones you mentioned: a nut that's cut too deeply and uneven frets. A third would be the neck itself being warped or twisted, and a fourth would be the kind of strings. So I would expect that any two basses with identical nuts and strings, level frets, and straight necks should be able to achieve equally low action.

However, none of these things is typically covered by a "setup," which generally involves adjusting the action, string height, and intonation. So if you bring your bass to a tech and ask them to do a setup and make the action as low as possible without fret buzz, they'll do the best they can with what they have to work with. If the resulting action isn't as low as you'd like it would be a separate job to modify/exchange the nut, or level the frets, or do whatever they can (if anything can be done) about a neck that isn't straight. Presumably, the tech would be able to tell you after doing the "setup" that they can't get the action any lower without doing one of these additional jobs.

 

[TheArchitect]

Two factors are the ones you mentioned: a nut that's cut too deeply and uneven frets. A third would be the neck itself being warped or twisted, and a fourth would be the kind of strings. So I would expect that any two basses with identical nuts and strings, level frets, and straight necks should be able to achieve equally low action.

However, none of these things is typically covered by a "setup," which generally involves adjusting the action, string height, and intonation. So if you bring your bass to a tech and ask them to do a setup and make the action as low as possible without fret buzz, they'll do the best they can with what they have to work with. If the resulting action isn't as low as you'd like it would be a separate job to modify/exchange the nut, or level the frets, or do whatever they can (if anything can be done) about a neck that isn't straight. Presumably, the tech would be able to tell you after doing the "setup" that they can't get the action any lower without doing one of these additional jobs.

This is on point. I just finished a fret level on my P bass to squeeze the action down a touch. I had 1 fret that was touch high and several others that were high enough to register with the fret rocker but only the tiniest bit off. The difference after leveling was not inconsequential.

The other thing I would add is the players touch. If you are plucking strings like you are yanking out plug wires in your car, you will need a higher action than if you have a smooth, light touch on the instrument.

 

[SteveCS]

IME, precise fret levelling and critical relief are the main factors. If you think about it for a moment, buzz is caused by a higher fret interfering with the vibrations of the string. So evenly-levelled frets are essential. A low fret will eventually cause buzz against the next highest fret. Likewise a high-spot may interfere with any number of lower notes on the same string. Both or either of these will become a limiting factor with respect to 'action'. Assuming level frets, you then have to provide space for the string to vibrate. That means relief - the slight forward curvature in the fingerboard. With a very flat relief, interference can occur from the next-highest fret adjacent to the one you are playing. Adding relief will create additional space to accomodate the string vibrations whilst missing the fret. When you add relief without changing the saddle height you will see the action in the higher positions going up. To keep the action consistent the temptation is to lower the saddle, but then you risk getting buzz from the frets at the 'dusty' end as the string bashes into those. So it about finding the right balance.
Another thing to consider is string gauge, tension and flexibility. High tension strings will have less excursion with less potential to hit the frets. In general, high tension means thicker gauge or more dense construction, e.g. flat or tape-wound.
Once you get beyond the run-of-the-mill 'Fender Spec Sheet' setup, you also have to be more aware of how you play, and may have to fine-tune your technique to get the most out of a really 'sporty' setup. A lighter touch means less string travel so less chance of hitting the frets so you can afford a lower setup. Someone with a heavier touch or more aggressive style might not do so well with a low setup.

 

[umefie]

I got it now, thank you!

 

[Jason Bonilla]

I'm not sure if this is a rule of thumb or not, but I've noticed all the neck through basses I've had have been able to deal with low action with straight necks better than the bolt-ons I've had.

 

[SteveCS]

I got it now, thank you!

There is one more factor to consider. Well two, but they work as a pair in the case, and that is fingerboard radius and neck taper. Let's compare two neck profiles. First off a vintage Jazz Bass: 7.25" radius, 1.25" nut. Second a modern Warwick 5-string 'Broadneck': 47" radius and 1.8" nut. Both 19/20mm at the bridge. The Warwick is almost rectangular and flat, so the strings will be almost parallel to the board from nut to bridge. The Jazz frets follow a tubular profile but the strings follow a conical profile. The Jazz strings will rise away from the board as you go up the neck. A vintage Jazz will never take as sporty a setup as a modern flat fingerboard.

 

[Snarf]

The way you play the instrument is such a huge factor in this. I've never been satisfied with "professional" setups. They are also a scam because for most things on a bass, it takes just a few minutes. Techs will take your instrument for weeks and charge you huge bench fees. I'll only take an instrument in for fret work and electronic issues. Everything else I can easily do myself, and I set up each instrument for my exact attack. All my setups are based on feel rather than any kind of exact math.

That said, after you eliminate high frets and a bad nut, you're looking at neck twisting as the next source for problems.

 

[umefie]

The way you play the instrument is such a huge factor in this. I've never been satisfied with "professional" setups. They are also a scam because for most things on a bass, it takes just a few minutes. Techs will take your instrument for weeks and charge you huge bench fees. I'll only take an instrument in for fret work and electronic issues. Everything else I can easily do myself, and I set up each instrument for my exact attack. All my setups are based on feel rather than any kind of exact math.

That said, after you eliminate high frets and a bad nut, you're looking at neck twisting as the next source for problems.

great advice thanks! after letting someone set it up professionally for the first time, I'll try to setup it up my way after.

 

[J Wilson]

There is a complex interplay of the factors that go into a setup. And basses will simply vary due to the wood(s) involved and the original build quality.

But before this commences, the real questions is what's 'low action's to you, and how is your technique, heavy-handed, lots of slap, etc.

There's a process to get you where you want to go, best addressed by a competent, experienced guitar tech willing to work with you, if you're not experienced to do it yourself.

 

[JimmyM]

There is one more factor to consider. Well two, but they work as a pair in the case, and that is fingerboard radius and neck taper. Let's compare two neck profiles. First off a vintage Jazz Bass: 7.25" radius, 1.25" nut. Second a modern Warwick 5-string 'Broadneck': 47" radius and 1.8" nut. Both 19/20mm at the bridge. The Warwick is almost rectangular and flat, so the strings will be almost parallel to the board from nut to bridge. The Jazz frets follow a tubular profile but the strings follow a conical profile. The Jazz strings will rise away from the board as you go up the neck. A vintage Jazz will never take as sporty a setup as a modern flat fingerboard.

Agreed. My “Fenders” are 12” radii, and I can tolerate 9.5” but not 7.25”. Funny thing is that I had an SX P with a 13” board and it felt convex to me.

I'm not sure if this is a rule of thumb or not, but I've noticed all the neck through basses I've had have been able to deal with low action with straight necks better than the bolt-ons I've had.

That’s something I thought was correlated for a long time. Sure seemed like it to me. But I have also played bolt ons with super low action, as low as any neck thru, so now I think it’s more about the fretwork and the quality of the joint. The rise in booteeky Fenders meant a rise in build quality and fret work, and I think they evened up the score.

 

[Dust2Dust]

At the risk of high-jacking this thread, is there anything "Wrong" with having high action?
When I first started playing I didn't like the way my fingers touched/rubbed the pickups on my plucking hand so I jacked the strings WAY up to the top. It solved my problem, and I liked the way it felt and played. Since then I've heard lots of . . . well, thinly-veiled insults and name calling about it. So, I've been trying to drop the action down but I've run into the problems that OP described and it doesn't feel "Right" to me anyway. . . at least not as right as the stratospheric-high action did.

 

[Ric5]

Hello, why can some basses do low action better, e.g(not having fret buzz even if it has a very low action). and why can some basses not do it? What are the factors that enable it to have low action?

Also, let's say 2 basses are settled up professionally(so no problems with the fretboard, nut, etc), does that mean that they are equal in terms of the amount of fret buzz? (assuming that string action is the same with both).

TYIA!

no 2 basses are truly identical ... no to pieces of wood are identical ...

 

[SteveCS]

At the risk of high-jacking this thread, is there anything "Wrong" with having high action?
...

No, and to a point there can be tonal benefits - greater clarity, cleaner attack, a (potentially) larger dynamic range and less unintentional noise.

...
When I first started playing I didn't like the way my fingers touched/rubbed the pickups on my plucking hand so I jacked the strings WAY up to the top.
...

The normal solution there is to drop the pickups down further into the body, not pull the strings up away from them. Pickup position should defer to playability, not the other way around, IMHO.

...
Since then I've heard lots of . . . well, thinly-veiled insults and name calling about it.
...

So what!! If it suits your style, or is part of your sound, feels right and works for you and your music then who is anyone else to comment?

 

[JimmyM]

At the risk of high-jacking this thread, is there anything "Wrong" with having high action?
When I first started playing I didn't like the way my fingers touched/rubbed the pickups on my plucking hand so I jacked the strings WAY up to the top. It solved my problem, and I liked the way it felt and played. Since then I've heard lots of . . . well, thinly-veiled insults and name calling about it. So, I've been trying to drop the action down but I've run into the problems that OP described and it doesn't feel "Right" to me anyway. . . at least not as right as the stratospheric-high action did.

Nobody needs play your bass but you. If they don’t like it, not your problem. But if you change your mind about it, you can fix the fingers touching pickups pretty easily just by picking somewhere else .

 

[Topkat13]

Quantify low action.

 

[Grinderman]

Nobody needs play your bass but you. If they don’t like it, not your problem. But if you change your mind about it, you can fix the fingers touching pickups pretty easily just by picking somewhere else .

Everyone knows there's never been any great bass players who played with high action.

:-|

 

[Grinderman]

Quantify low action.

"Behind the frets" - John Entwistle.

 

[Dust2Dust]

No, and to a point there can be tonal benefits - greater clarity, cleaner attack, a (potentially) larger dynamic range and less unintentional noise.



The normal solution there is to drop the pickups down further into the body, not pull the strings up away from them. Pickup position should defer to playability, not the other way around, IMHO.



So what!! If it suits your style, or is part of your sound, feels right and works for you and your music then who is anyone else to comment?

Thanks! . . appreciate it!

 

[Dust2Dust]

Nobody needs play your bass but you. If they don’t like it, not your problem. But if you change your mind about it, you can fix the fingers touching pickups pretty easily just by picking somewhere else .

Thanks!