Double Bass False nut question

[dhm]

I'm think of trying to have a false nut put on to shorten the string length on my 1920-30 German bass. After struggling with the 43.5+ mensure I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with their bass losing punch or volume after doing this. I'll be removing the extension also so I'm wondering if this might be another variable..

 

[bassmanbrent]

No direct experience, but I played a Hawkes-Rivierre that sounded great with and without a false nut. There was no noticeable difference, if memory serves. Like most things DB, I'm sure it will vary from bass to bass.

 

[notabene]

It should be possible to get an idea of the issue by putting a temporary shim "faux" nut under the strings at the location you choose, and hearing how it sounds, and how it feels. Presumably the permanent nut at that place will sound a bit better.

 

[robobass]

Yes, I'm thinking of a strip cut from an old credit card placed where you want your nut moved, and then a big cable tie pulls the strings down tight just behind it. A long cable tie, so it can wrap around the bottom button of the pegbox, since the back of the neck will be sloping up at that spot and not allow for this.

 

[robert_stuart]

It looks like the bridge has room to be moved up towards the nut as well. This is a change you can easily make without modifying the bass.

Bob Ross of Ross Double Bass did that on one to shorten the string length, and it sounds great. He told me you just need to try it out and hear what it sounds like.

 

[Phil Rowan]

+1 to what @johnny_bolt said above. Many years back, long before Keiran O’Hara replaced the neck, I had David Gage cheat the bridge on my somewhat smaller 3/4 German shop hybrid bass down to make the string length slightly longer, so perhaps a similar thing could be done here in the opposite direction.

 

[neilG]

What is the range in which you can position a bridge? Can you move it 1/2" up or down? I have a bass I want to sell, but it's got a 43" string length. If I could move the nut down and the bridge up 1/2", that would be perfect.

 

[vanderbrook]

Oh... I guess this isn't about testicular prostheses.

Never mind.

 

[David Potts]

If you shorten the string length with a false nut this will move note positions closer to the bridge, won't it? If my math is correct the D harmonic sounds at 1/3rd the length of the G string. So, if you reduce 43 1/2" to 42" this should move the G octave 3/4" closer to the bridge and D 1/2". Will this make the notes of 4th and 5th Positions (Simandl) harder to play on your bass? I have never tried to compensate this by moving the bridge up.

 

[neilG]

That would be my solution, to move the bridge and nut towards each other equal amounts. The question is how much leeway is there in bridge placement?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

False nut at 1/2 inch and bridge 1 inch closer to the fingerboard (don‘t forget to move the soundpost too!) gets you 42“ and keeps the note/intonation at the neck heel (fifth) in place.

But if you want to sell the bass, a potential buyer might not like the moved bridge. Better explain what can be done and if the buyer wants to test move the bridge only (but explain that the soundpost needs to be moved too for better sound and safety) and put something pressing on the fingerboard to simulate the false nut. Then let the buyer make the modification at his luthier.

 

[dperrott]

You can fake the bridge towards the fingerboard some. Sound post needs to be placed properly because of that. I worked on a bass recently that had that done. Not sure how much it shortened it.

 

[neilG]

False nut at 1/2 inch and bridge 1 inch closer to the fingerboard (don‘t forget to move the soundpost too!) gets you 42“ and keeps the note/intonation at the neck heel (fifth) in place.

Moving the nut and bridge the same amount would make that happen.

 

[David Potts]

On reflection I think I have got my math above wrong. Please advise me. Open G shortened 1 1/2" with false nut moves D 1 inch towards bridge, octave G 3/4", second D 1/2". Mark the fingerboard with pencil under the D fingered with your index and thumb in the base of the neck (4th Position, Simandl) then make a mark 1" closer to the bridge and see how this will effect the comfort of reaching D, E and F. I think Double Midi might be closer to a solution.

 

[neilG]

Yeah, I see the issue. Easy method would be to mark the D, then measure back 1/3 the desired string length for the nut, and then 2/3 string length down for bridge placement. So for 42", back 14 and down 28.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Moving the nut and bridge the same amount would make that happen.

I think you got it now that I was right.
To keep a certain point on the fingerboard the changes have to be in the same relation as the unchanged string length relation. That gives you the same relation of string length for the changed scale.

 

[neilG]

I think you got it now that I was right.
To keep a certain point on the fingerboard the changes have to be in the same relation as the unchanged string length relation. That gives you the same relation of string length for the changed scale.

Yeah, I figured that out when I did measurements on the bass itself.

 

[VictorW126]

When carrying the nut, the bridge must be moved twice as far. This will change the overall bass setting and where the bow is applied relative to the waist. How the sound will change is unknown.
The reverse conversion will be much more difficult or impossible.
By removing the extension, you lose some of your investment in bass. You will spend effort and money trying to get the wrong bass. I think there is someone who will like the enormous length of the string.
The market for 4/4 bass is very small. This means that few people want to use a bass with a 43 inches strings. But it also means that finding such bass is more difficult. Longlenght strings have some positives, such as clear tone and range. They are still in demand by some musicians. In addition, older double basses with very long strings are appreciated for converting into five-string versions.
My advice is to trust the manufacturer and keep the bass in the right (original) shape. You can sell or exchange it for whatever suits you.

Just my opinion!