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Double Bass (fdeck) HPF-pre... a refreshing solution

WovenGraphite

WovenGraphite

Jan 19, 2005
735
36
Bay Area, California
#1
Finally gave a try to the fdeck HPF-pre and admit that it delivers (ordered the HPF-pre 2M).

Some background:
I have been a long time user of DB+Realist (1st gen) -> AI Focus III -> to Epifani UL2-112 (for sale here!). That setup has served me well in many gigs from standard jazz trios, sextet with horns to mid-sized big bands, from small coffee shops to medium size dance halls.
I am a strong believer that the bass should be meaty and fill the lower end of the spectrum (not a big fan of Ron Carter tone).
But I did notice over the gig's duration that my tone was getting tiring (my eq on the AI was bass@noon, treble@noon, mid@zero [or full left]) and I felt I was lacking definition.

So over the years, gear came and went (or piled up) trying to solve that problem. Nothing really worked, either sound was crappy (bass bone anyone?) or too hard to find a sound (basswitch) or just too impossible to carry (Avalon U5).
Recently, due to a volontary reduction in gigs I started to spend a bit more time figuring out my tone.

First, I switched the cab to an Accugroove Tri-112L and that definitely pumped things up, much clearer tone.
Second, tried my BG amp, Eden WT-550... the EQ on that thing being very flexible, I knew I could get all sorts of tone form it and I think the tube pre gives it something special. But still needed impedance matching.

So I got this little guy to see how much truth was behind all the rave... Well, the HP definitely delivers, right off the bat!
It is so simple and both volume and frequency sweep are highly effective.
Realist -> pre -> eden -> accurgoove... taaaddaaaaaa... VERY VERY NICE!
A few tweaks of the frequency on the pre, eden flat but for the enhancer, set at noon, and there it is... nice present tone. With a drum track, the tone was both meaty and defined... would that be it?

Well, now I am setting up a couple of gigs in 2 different setups over the course of the next 2 months.
- jazz guitar and db duo in intimate coffee shop setting
- sextet with horns in larger place

The Eden and the Accugroove are a much heavier combo than the AI + Epifani but would that be the price to pay?

Let's see how things go! Will keep you guys posted


:)
 
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#3
I always told myself I'd add an fDeck HPF to the signal train when gigging started; that's imminent.
But as I also have a NXT-5 (piezo) inbound, it looks like I'm going to need an impedance-matching buffer for that too.
So - my HPF-3 order is in the pipeline...

My EB amp has an input impedance of 100 kOhms so I figure it will at least make 'some' sound until the HPF arrives...
 
#4
ArtechnikA said:
I always told myself I'd add an fDeck HPF to the signal train when gigging started; that's imminent.
But as I also have a NXT-5 (piezo) inbound, it looks like I'm going to need an impedance-matching buffer for that too.
So - my HPF-3 order is in the pipeline...

My EB amp has an input impedance of 100 kOhms so I figure it will at least make 'some' sound until the HPF arrives...
Click to expand...

Good idea to order the fdeck. It's a little gem! The idea is to provide the right load to the pickup rather than matching its impedance. See here. :)
 
#5
I think I might finally "get it" with the fdeck.
I bought one as soon as I got my DB and pickup, figuring it was a necessity. I couldn't find much use for it at practice with my setup. But over the weekend I had a gig at a small venue where I couldn't fit my amp on our performance space. I used my GK MB200 as a DI into the board. At sound check I wasn't plased with what I heard back. Nothing but low end and no definition. I put the fdeck in front of my amp, and could hear the tone of my instrument much better. Tons more range, and it sounded great to me.
It's not something that I need to use all the time, but I definitely will be keeping it in my gig bag at all my shows.
 
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#6
Gremson said:
I think I might finally "get it" with the fdeck.
I bought one as soon as I got my DB and pickup, figuring it was a necessity. I couldn't find much use for it at practice with my setup. But over the weekend I had a gig at a small venue where I couldn't fit my amp on our performance space. I used my GK MB200 as a DI into the board. At sound check I wasn't plased with what I heard back. Nothing but low end and no definition. I put the fdeck in front of my amp, and could hear the tone of my instrument much better. Tons more range, and it sounded great to me.
It's not something that I need to use all the time, but I definitely will be keeping it in my gig bag at all my shows.
Click to expand...
Interesting.... where did you have the HPF set? The GK's input impedance is 1 Mohm while the fdeck's is 10 Mohm. Assuming you're using a typical piezo-based pickup, then, if anything, you'd get a bit more low end using the fdeck. So, it would seem that the use of the HPF would be what saved you. The fdeck's response is ruler flat. That is, it's not "voiced" in any way in an effort to somehow "enhance" the sound. That's one of the features I like so much about it. I mention this in case anyone not familiar with the fdeck might think there's some proprietary hocus-pocus going on with it. There isn't. It is an elegant and neutral buffer amp mated to a high-pass filter.
 
#8
I recently went back to an fdeck. On my original bass it did nothing for me. However since an upgrade I decided to revisit the fdeck pre, and I'm glad I did. We had major space issues playing as a six piece in a tiny space saturday, so I didn't want to take an amp with me.

Saturday the fdeck was the only buffer in my signal chain. It went Rev Solo > fdeck > tuner/mute > PA channel 9. Within a minute we had decent tone coming out of the mains, which were not high end speakers (molded peavey 10's). I was astonished.
 
#9
Jay Corwin said:
I recently went back to an fdeck. On my original bass it did nothing for me. However since an upgrade I decided to revisit the fdeck pre, and I'm glad I did. We had major space issues playing as a six piece in a tiny space saturday, so I didn't want to take an amp with me.

Saturday the fdeck was the only buffer in my signal chain. It went Rev Solo > fdeck > tuner/mute > PA channel 9. Within a minute we had decent tone coming out of the mains, which were not high end speakers (molded peavey 10's). I was astonished.
Click to expand...
The fdeck loads the Rev. Solo very well. I used that combination for quite a while.
 
#10
Another very pleasantly surprised user.

I've used a number of pres over the years, the original Fishman Pro EQ, the Fishman Dual Parametric and the Baggs Para Acoustic (still have that) but was never satisifed with EQ as the answer for feedback. Then I got an AI Coda and discovered that using a high pass filter was the real answer.

Still, when I went out to jam sessions or festival gigs I couldn't use my amp and had to struggle with feedback every time.

So I finally plunked down the money for the fdeck 2M and after just two trips out with it I'm gobsmacked... Plug it in, set the frequency to max, crank the amp, dial the filter clockwise until I heard the first hint of feedback and I was good to go even with high stage volume and an unsympathetic amp.

I'll keep using the Baggs if I need to DI or apply more EQ than the amp allows but it looks like the 2M is here to stay.
 
#11
SO I just wanted to throw this out there, it's been said before (above) but Man the Fdeck HPF is just killin! Way better then the HPF on the Felix. How can that be? On my amp the Fdeck series 3 SOUNDS better, way. What the hell did he put in there?
 
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#13
flatback said:
SO I just wanted to throw this out there, it's been said before (above) but Man the Fdeck HPF is just killin! Way better then the HPF on the Felix. How can that be? On my amp the Fdeck series 3 SOUNDS better, way. What the hell did he put in there?
Click to expand...

Interesting, I sold my FDeck HPF 1, 2, and 3, years ago, when I got my Grace Felix, so there's no real way for me to compare them anymore. I do remember that they just didn't work with the Walter Woods amplifiers and the Realist Copper, I was using back then.
Just from a practical standpoint, It's way easer to take the Grace and the powered MAS out to the gig. I have a hard enough time remembering 2 power cords, 3 guitar cords, a windup extension cord, my stool, and all the other paraphernalia that you need for a gig.
Just my take of course. I thought that the MAS 1/8's v2's had a low pass filter installed in them?
 
#14
flatback said:
SO I just wanted to throw this out there, it's been said before (above) but Man the Fdeck HPF is just killin! Way better then the HPF on the Felix. How can that be? On my amp the Fdeck series 3 SOUNDS better, way. What the hell did he put in there?
Click to expand...
Is there some magic in there that isn’t in the lowest price one, whatever series it is?

Mine stayed in a drawer with a dead battery for years until I started playing in a club with a MarkBass combo. As the house amp it’s there and the owner wants us to use it. That amp sounds like absolute A$$. How can an amp be nasal, quacky AND boomy? Well, with the wonder box in front it’s much better. I’m too lazy to walk across the room to check whether I have a Series 1 but I think that’s it. How is the Series 3 different?
 
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#15
The Series 3
Greg Clinkingbeard said:
Is there some magic in there that isn’t in the lowest price one, whatever series it is?

Mine stayed in a drawer with a dead battery for years until I started playing in a club with a MarkBass combo. As the house amp it’s there and the owner wants us to use it. That amp sounds like absolute A$$. How can an amp be nasal, quacky AND boomy? Well, with the wonder box in front it’s much better. I’m too lazy to walk across the room to check whether I have a Series 1 but I think that’s it. How is the Series 3 different?
Click to expand...

From Francis’s website

“4. The "12+12" filter curve is two filters in one. The first filter has a fixed corner frequency of 35 Hz, and 12 dB/octave slope. The second filter is adjustable from 35 to 140 Hz, and also has a 12 dB/oct slope. Thus it always has 24 dB/oct slope below 35 Hz. I designed the Series 1 and 2M filter (same circuit in both) for double bass amplification, to tame the infrasonic "thump" produced by the acoustic instrument, which interacts poorly with the low frequency excursion behavior of ported speakers. Interest in a 24 dB/oct filter came from electric bassists who are experimenting with the latest high-performance speakers, to avoid driving the system at frequencies below the port tuning frequency. I designed the "12+12" filter with the same input conditions and "front panel" as Series 2M, so that either could be used for double bass.”
 
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#18
I guess part of the magic, is that the Felix comes with so much complexity that what I was reacting to was the way the FDeck works with my tube preamp (without having the Felix in line) The combination of the Sarno V8 with the Fdeck (V3) is sounding just great. That said, I was messing with stuff yesterday before a high energy quartet gig and decided to go with the Felix so I could blend the EAP with a tube preamped Yamahiko. And That last night was so utterly spectacular that I am going to stick with it for a while. (I have been using just one pickup:depending on the gig either the EAP the Y or the K4 all of which are on the bass...crazy I know)
 
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