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Double Bass Feedback with Full Circle

Bassist4Life

Bassist4Life

Dec 17, 2004
3,581
50
52
Buffalo, NY
#1
Hey guys... I don't post on this side of the forum very often. Be gentle...

I have a full circle pickup on my Shen 3/4. I plug into my GK 700RB-II and run it through my Berg HT112 cabinet.

I always have trouble getting a lot of volume without feedback. I can't seem to EQ it to give me clarity. Along with volume comes difficulty controlling feedback.

I had some luck running my DB through a SansAmp VT Bass pedal. It gave me more clarity and allowed me to control some of that feedback, but I just can't get enough volume. BUT, I had better not switch that VT pedal off or there is hell to pay...

Really, what am I doing wrong? I see guys like Chris Wood (Medeski, Martin & Wood) running through ampeg rigs at high volumes and not having feedback issues. He stands right in front of his amp.

The music I am playing is very similar to Medeski, Martin and Wood. Loud funky drums, Organ/Clavinet, sometimes guitar... I need to punch through all of that. I can't plug in my DB and bring the weak sauce... I usually play my P-Bass, but I'd love to bring the DB out to play... I know the audience will really dig it.

Peace & Music,
Joe
 
#5
Ed Fuqua said:
How long have you been playing upright?
Click to expand...

A long time, but my upright experience is primarily orchestral. I've been directing middle school orchestra for 10 years and double bass was my major instrument in college.

The feedback I'm getting is low, not a high-pitched squeal. I'm pretty sure that my instrument is setup well. Paul Strelau sold it to me and has done all the work on it. His shop installed the full circle pickup.

I'm not well versed in amplified double bass. I play my P-Bass 99% of the time. I'm getting the itch to start taking my upright out to shows to play certain tunes.

The VT Bass pedal that I initially purchased for electric bass works really well with the upright. I ran my signal direct to my multitrack recorder with and without the VT Bass and it has so much more character with the pedal. It sounds good through the amp too; however, I'm just not getting the volume I expect... certainly not enough for a funk jazz group in a medium sized bar.

Putting a rolled up towel between the body and the tailpiece has helped a little bit. It dampens the vibrations, but I'm guessing that's the point. I read in multiple posts that muting the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece with a velco strap helps too. I can do that, but I just need to see what it looks like.

Joe
 
#7
I was on a gig with my new Shen with FC pickup.

I was getting feedback too.

Move your amp so the speaker is not in line with or facing the bass.

The sound from the amp excites the bass which causes the bass to resonate thus causing feedback.

Its not totally the pickup's fault but it does play a part in the process.

Probably, the amp is at floor level and you are standing, getting an ear full of drums and other instruments. You are turning up your amp volume so it sounds good and feels right to you creating the feedback problem.

Put the amp to your right side and tilt it back, if you can, so you can hear it better.

If you can hear yourself, you can reduce your amp volume.

This might work... it did for me.
 
#8
laklandplayer said:
I was on a gig with my new Shen with FC pickup.

I was getting feedback too.

Move your amp so the speaker is not in line with or facing the bass.

The sound from the amp excites the bass which causes the bass to resonate thus causing feedback.

Its not totally the pickup's fault but it does play a part in the process.

Probably, the amp is at floor level and you are standing, getting an ear full of drums and other instruments. You are turning up your amp volume so it sounds good and feels right to you creating the feedback problem.

Put the amp to your right side and tilt it back, if you can, so you can hear it better.

If you can hear yourself, you can reduce your amp volume.

This might work... it did for me.
Click to expand...

Thank you! At my last gig I used a small table at the bar to set my amp on. Gets it closer to my ear. That might work and keep the vibrations away from the bass and stop the transfer of the vibrations through the floor.
 
#9
Well, the other thing too is, since you've been playing primarily arco, is that you may not have done a lot of work getting a well focused sound that projects. I know when I started making the switch from electric to upright, I was far too reliant on amplification to try to get the sound out front. But as Rufus Reid so eloquently puts it, if you're getting a thin unfocused sound that doesn't project acoustically, when you amplify that you get a LOUD thin unfocused sound that doesn't project. Do you do much pizz playing unamplified with other musicians? It's not just a matter of pulling harder; just as with arco, there's a lot of getting physics on your side, utilizing shoulder and torso muscles instead of fingers, finding the optimum string height to get the best sound out of the bass itself.

Sure there are volume levels that you basically are going to be better off just using a magnetic pickup. But for almost every situation -MMW, Bad Plus etc etc, those kinds of things - those guys aren't using some magic device. They're getting that sound out of the bass. You get a good warm projecting, centered sound acoustically, it's real easy to amplify that.
 
#10
Ed Fuqua said:
Well, the other thing too is, since you've been playing primarily arco, is that you may not have done a lot of work getting a well focused sound that projects. I know when I started making the switch from electric to upright, I was far too reliant on amplification to try to get the sound out front. But as Rufus Reid so eloquently puts it, if you're getting a thin unfocused sound that doesn't project acoustically, when you amplify that you get a LOUD thin unfocused sound that doesn't project. Do you do much pizz playing unamplified with other musicians? It's not just a matter of pulling harder; just as with arco, there's a lot of getting physics on your side, utilizing shoulder and torso muscles instead of fingers, finding the optimum string height to get the best sound out of the bass itself.

Sure there are volume levels that you basically are going to be better off just using a magnetic pickup. But for almost every situation -MMW, Bad Plus etc etc, those kinds of things - those guys aren't using some magic device. They're getting that sound out of the bass. You get a good warm projecting, centered sound acoustically, it's real easy to amplify that.
Click to expand...
That's exactly the size of it.
 
#11
Ed Fuqua said:
Well, the other thing too is, since you've been playing primarily arco, is that you may not have done a lot of work getting a well focused sound that projects. I know when I started making the switch from electric to upright, I was far too reliant on amplification to try to get the sound out front. But as Rufus Reid so eloquently puts it, if you're getting a thin unfocused sound that doesn't project acoustically, when you amplify that you get a LOUD thin unfocused sound that doesn't project. Do you do much pizz playing unamplified with other musicians? It's not just a matter of pulling harder; just as with arco, there's a lot of getting physics on your side, utilizing shoulder and torso muscles instead of fingers, finding the optimum string height to get the best sound out of the bass itself.

Sure there are volume levels that you basically are going to be better off just using a magnetic pickup. But for almost every situation -MMW, Bad Plus etc etc, those kinds of things - those guys aren't using some magic device. They're getting that sound out of the bass. You get a good warm projecting, centered sound acoustically, it's real easy to amplify that.
Click to expand...

ed speaks

+1
 
#12
Ed Fuqua said:
Well, the other thing too is, since you've been playing primarily arco, is that you may not have done a lot of work getting a well focused sound that projects. I know when I started making the switch from electric to upright, I was far too reliant on amplification to try to get the sound out front. But as Rufus Reid so eloquently puts it, if you're getting a thin unfocused sound that doesn't project acoustically, when you amplify that you get a LOUD thin unfocused sound that doesn't project. Do you do much pizz playing unamplified with other musicians? It's not just a matter of pulling harder; just as with arco, there's a lot of getting physics on your side, utilizing shoulder and torso muscles instead of fingers, finding the optimum string height to get the best sound out of the bass itself.

Sure there are volume levels that you basically are going to be better off just using a magnetic pickup. But for almost every situation -MMW, Bad Plus etc etc, those kinds of things - those guys aren't using some magic device. They're getting that sound out of the bass. You get a good warm projecting, centered sound acoustically, it's real easy to amplify that.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Ed. I really appreciate your feedback. No, I don't play upright much... 99% electric these days. I know what you mean about the technique. That will come with time and practice if I apply myself. Thanks again!

Peace & Music,
Joe
 
#13
I don't want you to think I'm coming down from on high with this ****, I went through many many years of new amp, new equalizer, new strings, new pre-amp, new speaker cabinet, new BASS. It wasn't until I started doing some specific work with my teacher that this all turned around for me. It's entirely doable, hell if I can do it anybody can....
 

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