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Fender Bassman 100T Chapter 3

Yep, this rather confirms what the local Fender rep said to me - that it is a chip (microprocessor) that fails and won't reprogram itself. Since it can't be reprogrammed at their repair workshop they have to wait for Fender to send a new chip. It is, I believe, a quick replacement once you have the part available. He said Fender USA have been excellent in providing support. I took the implication from our discussion that Fender had fixed the problem in newer runs (as you might expect). Makes you wonder why Fender doesn't make a few thousand spare chips and send a couple to each repair shop to keep on hand. As I said, it seems that if you have had no problem after a few months it should be fine........:hmm:

Yep! About as complex as a hand held calculator chip from the 70s/80s in terms of technology and manufacture, but like any MP, there can be bad ones, and in this case if they fail they loose their minds so to speak.

The technology is decades old and time tested. Just the application is new and a first for Fender.

As most familiar with them know, a bad MP will usually fail soon after it begins service, so like you said, if the system functions normally for the first 30 days of use, chances are it will continue to function properly for the life of the amplifier.

This is why I said those making all these doomsday predictions about the feature are just silly, and are showing their ignorance about the technology being used here.

I agree that Fender should have thought ahead and made sure all their service centers had replacements, simply because there is a failure rate for any component, and based on the popularity of this amp, there were bound to be a certain number of bad MPs in the auto-bias system.

Lastly...You can't use the number of complaints about this on here as any legitimate indication on the failure rate. It is a well known fact that users of a defective product are far more vocal than those who never have a problem.

Not everyone who owns this amp has an account on TalkBass. But I would venture a guess that the number of those with a problem are far more likely to come up here and post about it! ;)
 
Lastly...You can't use the number of complaints about this on here as any legitimate indication on the failure rate. It is a well known fact that users of a defective product are far more vocal than those who never have a problem.

Not everyone who owns this amp has an account on TalkBass. But I would venture a guess that the number of those with a problem are far more likely to come up here and post about it!

+1 Totally agree
 
So, I'm curious about this autobias feature. Given that proper bias is not an absolute number but a range of acceptable performance parameters with different sonic options balanced with tube life considerations, how does the amp decide where to put the bias?
 
So, I'm curious about this autobias feature. Given that proper bias is not an absolute number but a range of acceptable performance parameters with different sonic options balanced with tube life considerations, how does the amp decide where to put the bias?

Power tubes sound best when they are evenly matched with each other. That is where the bias setting stuff comes in to play.

You would have to ask Fender about what algorithm they are using to set the bias of each power tube, but the most impressive part of this feature is that it continues to monitor and tweak that bias WHILE the amp is in use (Idle or low volume playing), because power tubes are notorious for drifting over several hours of operation.

I would say that this is the biggest advantage of this feature over the conventional manual bias setting system in all other amps. That and being able to simply replace ONE or two BAD tubes without having to toss out the other good two. In other amps, you need to match the quad and when you change or loose tubes due to failure, the amp needs to be re-biased AGAIN with FOUR matched tubes! If you are unlucky enough to have a run of bad tubes, this could get expensive or at the very least time consuming!

That and the fact that if a tube fails or begins to fail, the system will quickly determine if the tube is becoming a danger to the power amp, and if it is, the system will shut that tube down long before it can short out and damage the amplifier. Because the quad is divided into TWO pairs, the other tube paired with the failing tube will also be shut down but it will be indicated as ORANGE not RED. The amp will continue to operate on the two remaining good tubes, but at reduced power.

Chances of getting a failure of two tubes in each pair is remote, but always a good idea to test your power tubes on a reliable tube tester every few months.

It can also be used as a full voltage tube tester, since it will not allow a bad tube to be active in the system and will turn that LED RED and shut that tube down at power up.

This is what I tested during my tube rolling experiments, and it worked really well. Far more sophisticated in its determinations than I expected it to be.
 
I was going to type out a lengthy explanation of exactly what tube bias is and what it does, but them I remembered that Fender has a pretty good explanation in the 100t owners manual, so here is a copy and paste of that section:

BIAS – What is it? Why is it important?

The bias setting on your tube power amplifier determines the idle current flowing through each tube. In other words, the bias setting (WARM/NORMAL/COOL), determines how much power is flowing through each tube at idle (while the amplifier is not being played).

Tubes are complex devices that are difficult to manufacture in a consistent way. To account for this, tubes are often measured and then given "grades" to sort them by performance characteristics. All tubes of the same grade can be set at the same bias, which is why in traditional tube amplifiers (without Fender Automatic Bias) it is necessary to replace all output tubes at the same time and with a "matched set" of the same grade. Furthermore, if the new matched set is not the same grade as the old matched set the amplifier would need to be taken to a service center to have the bias adjusted.

Fender Automatic Bias monitors and adjusts the bias of each tube individually. If one tube fails, it is not necessary to replace all output tubes with a matched set. If a single tube fails, that single tube can be replaced with a tube of the same type, but it does not need to be the same grade as the other tubes in the amplifier. Visit www. groovetubes.com for more information about the tube grading system.

The bias setting affects amplifier tone, dynamics, tube life, and power consumption in the following ways:


WARM: More aggressive (dirtier) tone, faster attack. Shorter tube life, higher power consumption.
NORMAL: Typical setting. Good balance between tone and tube life.
COOL: Less aggressive (cleaner) tone, smoother attack. Longer tube life, lower power consumption.

============================

Auto-Bias Feature:

Adjusting the tube BIAS:

NOTE: To preserve the amplifier’s rich tube tone, Fender Automatic Bias will not make any bias adjustments while the amplifier is being played. Fender Automatic Bias will always wait until the amplifier is at idle or being played at very low levels before making any adjustments.


GREEN LED mov- ing left to right:
The tubes are warming up. You should always wait longer than one minute before taking the amplifier out of STANDBY.
NOTE: If the STANDBY switch is set to ON before one minute (not recommended), the display will not update until after the one minute warm up period has passed.

LED is solid green:
The tube is OK and operating at the desired bias level (WARM/ NORMAL/COOL).

LED is green and blinking:
The bias for that tube is being adjusted. It can take up to 20 seconds to complete the adjustment.
NOTE: If an LED blinks continuously for longer than 5 minutes (after power-up or bias adjustments), that tube is worn out and should be replaced.

Within either pair (1A/1B, 2A/2B) one LED is red and the other LED is orange:
The tube indicated with the red LED has failed, and should be replaced (refer to the Tube Replacement section on next page for instructions). The tube indicated with the orange LED, has been shut off to allow the amplifier to run safely with the remaining pair of tubes (green LEDs).
NOTE: If a tube fails it is safe to continue operating your amplifier with the two remaining tubes. However, the ampli- fier will produce less power and for best performance the speaker impedance switch {S} should be set to one-half of the total speaker impedance. Example: If you have a 4Ω speaker system connected, and a tube fails, set {S} to 2Ω.
Within either pair (1A/1B, 2A/2B) both LEDs are red:


Sometimes, if a tube fails under certain high level signal con- ditions, Fender Automatic Bias cannot determine which tube of the pair has failed, and displays both in the pair red. It is still safe to operate the amplifier in this mode, but it will operate at reduced power (as discussed above).

There are two service options in this situation (refer to the Tube Replacement section for tube replacement procedure):
1) Replacebothtubesthatwereindicatedred,andtheappro- priate fuse {BB}.
-OR-
2) Troubleshoot to replace only the failed tube. This is the best option if replacing both tubes is not practical (like on a gig), and spare fuses are available.
a. Replaceeitherofthetubesthatwereindicatedred,with 
a new or known good tube. Keep the removed tube 
handy, in case it was not actually the failed tube.
b. Replace the appropriate tube fuse {BB} with the same 
type and rating.
c. Turn POWER {M} on, keep the amplifier in STANDBY {N} 
at least 1 minute.
d. Take the amplifier out of STANDBY, wait 10-15 seconds 
for Fender Automatic Bias to determine the tube status 
and update the display .
e. If all LEDs are now green, the bad tube was replaced 
(dispose of the removed tube properly).
f. If the two LEDs remain red, the wrong tube was 
replaced. Keep the removed tube and proceed to 
step g.
g. Remove the other tube in the pair with the red LED 
indicator and replace it with the tube that was removed 
during step a. Repeat steps b-e.
h. If there are still two red LEDs, both tubes had failed. 
Replace the tube from step g with a brand-new tube (dispose of the removed tube properly). Repeat steps b-e.
All LEDs are red or orange:
Multiple tube failures, the amplifier will be silent. Service each pair of tubes as described above. This is not likely to occur.
NOTE: If any tubes are missing (not installed), the LED indica- tor for that tube will display orange. A pair of tubes may also display orange if the fuse for that pair of tubes is missing and Fender Automatic Bias did not detect a tube failure.
 
Quick question, and I know it's not quite in the correct thread, but do any of the current 100t owners also happen to have a silverface fender head and a new cabinet that they could take a picture of? I am looking into the future on getting a Fender Bassman 100 (silverface) and either a 4x10 or 6x10, and I'm curious on their visual appeal, as well as how they sound together.
 
Sorry, can't help but having owned and played plenty of silverfaces in the past I would think they will match very nice visually. I can also assure you that the new 100T is a totally different amp to the old silverface Bassmans, not only for its extra features but because it has way more headroom than the old ones ever had. It is a much louder 100 watts than I remember the old Bassman (yes, I know 100 watts is still 100 watts, but the headroom available is significantly greater). The 100T is an infinitely more useable amp, although I know there are many who still swear by their seventies silverfaces. Just be aware that a silverface is not a cheaper version of the 100T without the options - the 100T is a whole new beast IMO/IME.
 
Power tubes sound best when they are evenly matched with each other. That is where the bias setting stuff comes in to play.

You would have to ask Fender about what algorithm they are using to set the bias of each power tube, but the most impressive part of this feature is that it continues to monitor and tweak that bias WHILE the amp is in use (Idle or low volume playing), because power tubes are notorious for drifting over several hours of operation.

I would say that this is the biggest advantage of this feature over the conventional manual bias setting system in all other amps. That and being able to simply replace ONE or two BAD tubes without having to toss out the other good two. In other amps, you need to match the quad and when you change or loose tubes due to failure, the amp needs to be re-biased AGAIN with FOUR matched tubes! If you are unlucky enough to have a run of bad tubes, this could get expensive or at the very least time consuming!

Wouldn't having to match the quad depend on the amp and how many bias pots it had?
 
Wouldn't having to match the quad depend on the amp and how many bias pots it had?

It would, but all tube sets need to be bias matched. And for optimum performance you really should have a bias control pot for each tube in the set.

The 100t adjusts bias on a PER TUBE basis and constantly monitors those setting and adjusts them whenever the tube drifts out of the previous adjustment, which happens more than most people realize.

The Fender system is about as good as it gets, and this is why I find it odd that people are afraid of it, or say things like, manual bias is better. Thats ridiculous! You can't outperform a little computer that sits there and tweaks the tubes all night long. :)
 
Sorry, can't help but having owned and played plenty of silverfaces in the past I would think they will match very nice visually. I can also assure you that the new 100T is a totally different amp to the old silverface Bassmans, not only for its extra features but because it has way more headroom than the old ones ever had. It is a much louder 100 watts than I remember the old Bassman (yes, I know 100 watts is still 100 watts, but the headroom available is significantly greater). The 100T is an infinitely more useable amp, although I know there are many who still swear by their seventies silverfaces. Just be aware that a silverface is not a cheaper version of the 100T without the options - the 100T is a whole new beast IMO/IME.

Hey Tim!

Do you have a photo of your rig with that other cab you were talking about earlier today? Was curious to see how it looks with the 100t on top! :)
 
Cool!

Yes!

I tried some RCA 7581s and they were close to the sound of the GEs, but not as warm to my ear. GE 7581s would be my choice for that model, but I don't have any of those in my collection right now. A bit overkill for the 100t though as I will detail below...

Also, the set I had were not very even testing and also well used, so I didn't include them in my top 3. If it were not for the auto-bias feature in this amp, I would not have been able to use the quad I had even for testing because they would have likely not bias matched very well, simply based on the wide range of GM I got when tested on my Triplett 3444.

I have also found that the prices for this model are even more outrageous these days than a 6L6 GC.

For those who may not be familiar with this other 6L6 variant...

The only real difference between a 6L6GC and a 7581 is that the latter can handle higher plate voltages, which in the case of the 100t is really not going to buy you much since the amp is designed and speced for a GC type 6L6 power tube. It wouldn't harm the amp or the tube to run them, and they would likely last a little longer than a set of GCs since they would not be running full tilt, but even the GE GC is overbuilt as compared to any of the Russian made tubes today, including the GTs this amp came with. So both of these NOS 6L6 models are going last much longer than anything from Russia or China.

anything but GTs are better in this beast. I repalced my pre-section with RCA NOS blackplates and the power section with Wing Cs. I've A/B'ed it with my SVT-CL and it come mighty close with my ears but no match for the difference in power.
 
As you saw in my results post, the Winged Cs were definitely the best sounding of the Russian made power tubes I tested.

Good choice going with the RCA black plate 12AX7s! If I didn't have the Mullards I am using, I would have probably used those too.

Did you put an RCA 12AT7 in too? I am running a RCA black plate AT7 in mine.

Its important to use a quality well balanced AT7 because it is a voltage regulator tube, just upstream of the 6L6s. Took me some time to find one out of my stash that had close to even strength on both triodes.

The stock GT AT7 I took out of my amp was definitely not as balanced as I would like to see.
 
Hi GG7, if you mean the NV115 I only just got it so I don't have a pic at the moment. Will try to take one and post it for you in the next day or two. I have posted pics of the 100T on the Berg 215 somewhere in the past. I have got to say that 115 cab has a huge sound for a single fifteen.
 
As you saw in my results post, the Winged Cs were definitely the best sounding of the Russian made power tubes I tested.

Good choice going with the RCA black plate 12AX7s! If I didn't have the Mullards I am using, I would have probably used those too.

Did you put an RCA 12AT7 in too? I am running a RCA black plate AT7 in mine.

Its important to use a quality well balanced AT7 because it is a voltage regulator tube, just upstream of the 6L6s. Took me some time to find one out of my stash that had close to even strength on both triodes.

The stock GT AT7 I took out of my amp was definitely not as balanced as I would like to see.

Yep, RCA AT7 for the phase inverter. According to this blog most important tube??

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'd already bought the whole set so couldnt see if it is a valid argument or not.
 
Yep, RCA AT7 for the phase inverter. According to this blog most important tube??

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'd already bought the whole set so couldnt see if it is a valid argument or not.

Right! Phase Inverter! ... Basically the tube that takes the signal from the preamp and passes it down to the power tubes to get the final stage of amplification.

It is a very important tube, and often overlooked. This guy you linked to seems to think it is even more crucial than I do, but either way, it is a good idea to use a high testing and well balanced AT7 in this amp.

When I was doing my tube rolling experiments, I was also swapping out different AT7s too, and you can hear sonic changes in this amp by just swapping out that one single tube.

Based on the test results from my GT AT7 that came with my amp, I would advise everyone with a 100t to at least replace that tube with a quality well balanced NOS AT7.

RCA, Mullard, Amperex, Sylvania, GE. All of those are good.

In fact, Mullard Blackburn AT7s from the 50s and 60s are way cheaper than 12AX7s from the same eras. But before you pay anything for these, you need to buy from a seller that has tested the tube and guarantees the triodes are balanced, or very close to balanced.

Having balanced triodes on this particular tube is way more crucial to optimum amp performance than having balanced triodes on the 12AX7s in the V1 and V2 positions. Thats because of what the tube at this place in the circuit is doing.
 
I am so friggin happy with this amp!!!

I picked it up earlier today and just got back from practice with a 3 piece punk band. My neo410 isn't here until Saturday, so I just used some random unmarked 15" that was at the practice spot and it sounded awesome.

Didn't have much time to mess with settings due to time constraints, so I just put everything at 5 and rocked it. Skimmed the manual before practice, need some time to get used to the way I need to dial in my tone. Can't complain about any of the sounds I got out of it tonight, can only get better once I get how the blend and different channels sound.

It was raining when practice was over so I grabbed an extra shirt in my car to cover and ran as quick as I could.

Please advise on roadcases or padded/non padded covers if yall are using them. I don't mind paying some money to properly protect it, just wanting to hear some of your experiences with different options. Couldn't find much using the forum search.
 
Congrats! You're right! It will only get better over time! Those stock Groove Tubes need a few weeks to break in before they start sounding their best. Same will go for the 410 Neo cab.

Be sure you give the amp at least a minute to warm up in Standby before you put full power to the tubes, and also give it at least 5 minutes in standby before shutting it down when you're done with it.

Can't help with the road case questions, but retubing the amp with vintage NOS tubes can take your amp to another level sonically.

The GTs sound pretty damned good though, so leave them in there if you want, but when its time to replace them, definitely invest in some quality NOS tubes from the 50s or 60s. If not the entire amp... At least upgrade the 12AT7 and the two 12AX7s.
 
Yep, RCA AT7 for the phase inverter. According to this blog most important tube??

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'd already bought the whole set so couldnt see if it is a valid argument or not.

Thanks for this. I took out the random 12AT7 in my bandmaster and found a Philips JAN in my tube box and put that in there. I also have some nice ones from Raytheon from back in the day and you know they got the best of the best.

Hm, I have an old tube driven oscilloscope that was scrapped by MIT. I should see if there are any tubes worth scavenging in there....
 
Thanks for this. I took out the random 12AT7 in my bandmaster and found a Philips JAN in my tube box and put that in there. I also have some nice ones from Raytheon from back in the day and you know they got the best of the best.

Hm, I have an old tube driven oscilloscope that was scrapped by MIT. I should see if there are any tubes worth scavenging in there....

Those are a GREAT resource for tubes! Definitely have a look inside!:)