Coming back on this one. What type of lubricant should I use? Is WD40 okay? I would prefer something like silicone grease...
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Fender Japan Tuning Machines very stiff
- Thread starter MichiBass
- Start date
If you are adamant about using a lube, I'd use a lithium grease. Silicone, if it gets on your finish, is difficult to remove. What ever you use, do it sparingly, a little dab is way too much.
Paraffin wax is good lube for tuners.
With these Gotoh GB8 tuners, sometimes you get a set that's just stiff turning — no matter what you do to correct it.
I would recommend grabbing a set of either the Gotoh GB9s or the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. The difference between these two, besides price, is weight. The GBR640s are VERY lightweight. The GB9s are an older design, and slightly lighter in weight than your current tuners.
Also, both of the above tuner models have a smooth baseplate — no pinch tabs to dig into your headstock.
Your current GB8 tuners are worth $50 on the used market here, so the above tuner upgrade won't cost you that much in the end.
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Great advice, thanks! How come you know all the models?
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I've been through this same situation, and done the research.
I'd recommend the GBR640s.
I've been through this same situation, and done the research.
I'd recommend the GBR640s.
What is the difference between the GB640 and the GBR640?
I am also considering the Hipshot HB 3.
I think those two are the only direct replacements for my tuning machines, right? Here is a picture with mine:
The difference between the GB640 and GBR640 is the "wind", or gearing. The GBR model is reverse winding, just like the original tuners on your bass, while the GB model is a non-reverse winding.
Besides the GB640/GBR640 Res-O-Lites, and the Hipshot HB3, you also have the Gotoh GB9, which is basically an older version of the GBR640, but a bit heavier, and a bit cheaper. Like the GBR640, the GB9 also has a flat mounting surface (no tabs), it can also be disassembled for cleaning as well as swapping the cloverleaf for left-hand orientation, and also has the allen wrench backlash / torque adjust feature. Weight-wise, the GB9 is heavier than both the GBR640s and the GB8 / Fender steel tuners currently on your bass.
Every once in awhile, Mojotone has a holiday sale, and you can pick up the GBR640s — normally $95 — for 10—20% off. I did that recently, and ended up paying around $82 for the set.
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Major update!
Today I replaced my Gotoh GB-8 with a set of Gotoh GB-640. I weighted them during the change (without the bushing and the 4 screws):
Gotoh GB-8 - 100 grams
Gotoh GB-640 - 67 grams!
So the weight difference is considerable!
I also wanted to replace the bushing, thinking that the new bushing is also made from lighter aluminium, but after taking them down and weighting them, i realised they were THE SAME, they looked the same and both weighted 26 grams (all 4).
While removing them with a drum stick and not with the method described here, I damaged some of the finish around the bushings:
Here is an image with the tuners down. You can see the marks in the wood from the old tuners:
While finishing the action and screwing the tuners backplates, to my major disappointment, I destroyed the head of 4 screws! I guess they are also from aluminium, and while using a normal screwdriver, I simply destroyed the phillips screw, and now I cannot screw them to the end and cannot remove them! What a shame!
Also, the new tuners, although they are lighter, do NOT work much smoother. The stock tuners on my Fender Highway One Jazz Bass (which are the ones on Mexican Fenders) work much smoother.
Very disappointed by Gotoh! Next time: Hipshot!
Today I replaced my Gotoh GB-8 with a set of Gotoh GB-640. I weighted them during the change (without the bushing and the 4 screws):
Gotoh GB-8 - 100 grams
Gotoh GB-640 - 67 grams!
So the weight difference is considerable!
I also wanted to replace the bushing, thinking that the new bushing is also made from lighter aluminium, but after taking them down and weighting them, i realised they were THE SAME, they looked the same and both weighted 26 grams (all 4).
While removing them with a drum stick and not with the method described here, I damaged some of the finish around the bushings:
Here is an image with the tuners down. You can see the marks in the wood from the old tuners:
While finishing the action and screwing the tuners backplates, to my major disappointment, I destroyed the head of 4 screws! I guess they are also from aluminium, and while using a normal screwdriver, I simply destroyed the phillips screw, and now I cannot screw them to the end and cannot remove them! What a shame!
Also, the new tuners, although they are lighter, do NOT work much smoother. The stock tuners on my Fender Highway One Jazz Bass (which are the ones on Mexican Fenders) work much smoother.
Very disappointed by Gotoh! Next time: Hipshot!
Sorry this happened to you. THe thing is, all screws are not created equal. The new screws didn't follow the old threads and being made overseas were likely slightly larger shanked and jammed, they also could be just a bit longer. Using the original screws would have avoided this. Live and learn.
Secondly, all Screws that appear to be Phillips are not USA spec Phillips. The Asians have their own types. It's important to always select the proper driver. Get a set of driver bits the has multiple star shaped bits. Always select the correct bit for the socket on the screw by trying each and picking the one that feels locked in place when you wiggle it. You can avoid head stripping. The bit sets and a driver handle are a pretty cheap investment.
For now, you can try backing them out with pliers or small vice grips; gently. If they won't move, you can cut slots in the heads to use a flat screwdriver to try. If any break off, come back and we can help with info on extracting them. All this depends on your skill level and availability of tools. If that's a struggle for you, better see a professional.
Secondly, all Screws that appear to be Phillips are not USA spec Phillips. The Asians have their own types. It's important to always select the proper driver. Get a set of driver bits the has multiple star shaped bits. Always select the correct bit for the socket on the screw by trying each and picking the one that feels locked in place when you wiggle it. You can avoid head stripping. The bit sets and a driver handle are a pretty cheap investment.
For now, you can try backing them out with pliers or small vice grips; gently. If they won't move, you can cut slots in the heads to use a flat screwdriver to try. If any break off, come back and we can help with info on extracting them. All this depends on your skill level and availability of tools. If that's a struggle for you, better see a professional.
Hello. May I add to this good advice something I learned the hard way:
When we try to set these screws without the help of paraffin or dry soap (or similar), the task will end in tears.
Last night I assembled a Precision Bass using a non-original neck. The neck had a nut, but no hardware. For tuners I had an Allparts set made by Gotoh, pre-CBS type. (BTW they are very stiff, as you and others report of similar Gotoh-made models. So from now on I will look to Gotoh for modern type tuners only.)
- To set the tuners' and string retainer's mounting screws in the headstock, I used dry bar soap and a Wima mini screwdriver. For each tuner screw,
- first I scraped the whole surface of its threads on the soap
- then I screwed it in a bit, then back out a bit, then further in, then a bit out, and so on until it was not quite fully screwed in.
- Starting with two diagonally opposed screws per tuner to align the tuners all together,
- then I did the remaining half of the screws.
- Lastly I screwed them all down completely. There was a very definite, satisfying feeling of reaching the limit of tightness for each screw; like a soft snick as that corner of the tuner's base fully touched the headstock.
MichiBass, if I presumed and you did use soap or paraffin this time yet stripped the screws, then I apologize. I wish you better luck in your next try!
I find this hard to believe. If there is one word I would use to describe GOTOH Res-O-Lite tuners "smooth" would be it. I could see the tuners being a little tight, or somewhat hard to turn, but that can be adjusted using the hex screw on the bottom of the post. Have you tried loosening the screw? There should have been a wrench provided if you bought the tuners new.
I tried. Maybe they have to break in. But really, the tuners on my Highway One Jazz, which are like on the Mexican Fenders, work much better.
Holes look okay. And all the tuners work the same. But maybe they need to break in...
I've owned six or seven sets of GB640s\GBR640s. I put them on all of my vintage-reissue Fender basses. One note, I always use the stock, Fender bushings and screws. On the bushings, it is because the GOTOH bushings never seem to fit the factory holes. In my experience, they don't need any break-in time.
By not smooth, are you saying they are tight (hard to turn), or does it seem like the gears are binding up? If you remove one of the tuners from the headstock and turn the post does it feel any smoother?
In the end I bought new screws, Göldo Vintage Tuner Screw, and I replaced all the screws, including the stripped ones. The new ones worked perfectly, and I did not strip a single one.
Regarding the smoothness of the tuners, I loosened the screw and the tuners are okay now. But I still think that the ones from my Fender work smoother, and I suspect this is because of the feel of the material (aluminium vs. steel?)
Regarding the smoothness of the tuners, I loosened the screw and the tuners are okay now. But I still think that the ones from my Fender work smoother, and I suspect this is because of the feel of the material (aluminium vs. steel?)
I got a really net set of nickel-plated, large footprint tuners from a nice guy in Florida, from off this site. That was a bunch of years ago and I still have great affection for them. I cannot, however, remember his name.
There are quite a few differing 'Phillips' head screws and their associated drivers.
There is US/SAE (Standards Of American Engineers) and JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard, MIS (Metric Industrial Standard), GMBR (A German Standard for hardware) , DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V), IIS (Indonesian Industrial Standard, of which there are a few assorted illogical standards really) and unfortunately one from India, of which I cannot remember the symbol.
All these are NOT really "Phillips" since that is a name of a company that first produced a reliable cross-head drive for screws on an assembly line. It's original design was to 'jump out of the cruciform, thereby limiting torque" and this is why a true Phillips is so frustrating. The idea was to not over-tighten critical fasteners on an assembly line - probably Ford did this as he was trying to standardize his speedy auto assembly lines.
So - you see - the country and specifications of the design are all required information to get the correct driver for your screws. Don't just assume that you are working with "Phillips-type" screws and drivers.
I have a few dozen sets of cruciform screw drivers and another 8 or 9 dozen of tips for 1/4" drivers that are all pretty much different - some by almost indistinguishable design criteria. It only take a slip to ruin a screw head, have the drive jump out of the screw and gouge the finish - so it's all a big crapshoot if you don't try to at least fit the driver to the screw.
That sounds somewhat pornographic - but fitting it before you put torque to it will keep a lot of damage from happening. We learn by our mistakes - I certainly did!
Lastly - the heads look different too. Anyone who has a merit badge in Fender Guitars Hardware can spot a real Fender screw from 20 paces. They are just THAT different!
Then there's the threads - but that's for another book I'll write some other day - er, night. I'm going tom sleep.
There are quite a few differing 'Phillips' head screws and their associated drivers.
There is US/SAE (Standards Of American Engineers) and JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard, MIS (Metric Industrial Standard), GMBR (A German Standard for hardware) , DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V), IIS (Indonesian Industrial Standard, of which there are a few assorted illogical standards really) and unfortunately one from India, of which I cannot remember the symbol.
All these are NOT really "Phillips" since that is a name of a company that first produced a reliable cross-head drive for screws on an assembly line. It's original design was to 'jump out of the cruciform, thereby limiting torque" and this is why a true Phillips is so frustrating. The idea was to not over-tighten critical fasteners on an assembly line - probably Ford did this as he was trying to standardize his speedy auto assembly lines.
So - you see - the country and specifications of the design are all required information to get the correct driver for your screws. Don't just assume that you are working with "Phillips-type" screws and drivers.
I have a few dozen sets of cruciform screw drivers and another 8 or 9 dozen of tips for 1/4" drivers that are all pretty much different - some by almost indistinguishable design criteria. It only take a slip to ruin a screw head, have the drive jump out of the screw and gouge the finish - so it's all a big crapshoot if you don't try to at least fit the driver to the screw.
That sounds somewhat pornographic - but fitting it before you put torque to it will keep a lot of damage from happening. We learn by our mistakes - I certainly did!
Lastly - the heads look different too. Anyone who has a merit badge in Fender Guitars Hardware can spot a real Fender screw from 20 paces. They are just THAT different!
Then there's the threads - but that's for another book I'll write some other day - er, night. I'm going tom sleep.
