Fender Pure Vintage '63 vs. DiMarzio Model P pickups

[Ptbakes77]

Hi! First post! I have read a lot of pickup threads here but I have not seen this direct comparison.I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both and if so, if they are similar enough to make a change not worth the hassle.

I currently play a Sire P5R with the Fender PV '63 pickup. Overall I've been pretty happy with it, definitely more than the Quarter Pounders it came with. However I recently switched from playing with steel rounds to Rotosound 77 flats. With that has come a loss in output and a loss of upper mids and highs.

While I prefer a darker tone, I'm wondering if I'm missing out on a more aggressive tone that responds better to overdrive with the Fender PV '63. From what I've read, the Model P and PV 63' are both high output, bass and low mid boosting pickups, but maybe the Model P has more upper mids, less bass and much higher output. I'm also thinking, if so, why the PV '63 is marketed as vintage and the Model P as modern if they have such similar profiles. I don't really care about vintage or not, I just want a loud snarly pickup that sits in the mix like a P-bass should without too much tinkering.

I primarily play funky post-punk/new wave like Gang of Four, Talking Heads, The Clash. I'm aware Model P's were popular in that era and I'll admit that's a factor in my interest, as well as the cool cream covers! I mostly play with a pick and flats as mentioned, nothing special setup, EQ pedal, compressor, Sansamp BDDI V2. I generally liked the sound of the rounds and put them on my J-bass, but much prefer the attack response from the flats with a pick, and I also found that the highs were too aggressive for my taste.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I found the ‘63 to have a vintage Fender voicing. The DiMarzio Model P IMHO is just what you described that you’re looking for: It snarls, it has greater overall output, and its midrange response is quite pronounced. I don’t know if it has less low end than the ‘63, but it’s low end sounds very balanced compared to it’s midrange.

I hope that helps.

BTW, it made me smile to see you mention Gang of Four. Very cool band!

 

[Ptbakes77]

I found the ‘63 to have a vintage Fender voicing. The DiMarzio Model P IMHO is just what you described that you’re looking for: It snarls, it has greater overall output, and its midrange response is quite pronounced. I don’t know if it has less low end than the ‘63, but it’s low end sounds very balanced compared to it’s midrange.

I hope that helps.

BTW, it made me smile to see you mention Gang of Four. Very cool band!

Good to hear! I kept reading here that the PV 63 was either just like a classic P sound or nothing at all like one so I appreciate the clarification!

And hell yeah re: Gang of Four, some of my favorite basslines!

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Good to hear! I kept reading here that the PV 63 was either just like a classic P sound or nothing at all like one so I appreciate the clarification!

And hell yeah re: Gang of Four, some of my favorite basslines!

Here’s a decent review of the Model P

 

[Malak the Mad]

@Ptbakes77; Just a thought, but if you're up for a little bit of experimentation, you might want to try a set of Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats before you start buying and replacing pickups. So far, they are the brightest flatwound strings I've used, even brighter than new D'Addario Chromes.

 

[Yahboy]

I been own PV63 pup and love the tone pretty much with Ti flat. She has more output but not aggressive as Model P .

On current day, i love the Tim Shaw design pickups on Vintera 50s P more (organic and woody), especially with Ti flat.

The G string on Pv63 sometime get blurry in loud band mix. But no problem with Model P in my Squier Mattfreeman P .

I use the benefit of crazy hot Model P (EB Cobalt flat loaded )to push the SGT overdrive on my Rb combo, along with both Ultra hi/Lo engage, she sound more clanky angry massive than other overwound alnico V P pickups i been use included the 13K wound one.

So, 2 different P with different pickup for different music gerne.....

Edit.
Just like most people, i lower the Model P pickups height almost flush on pickguard to reduce the crazy output, but, i can hear she sound different compare to pickups height in normal setting (2.8mm E , 2.4mm G). Lacking the signature mid growl and blank sounding !

I believe Dimarzio create the Model P purpose to push any tube head for that iconic 70s angry P vibe !

 

[Ptbakes77]

@Ptbakes77; Just a thought, but if you're up for a little bit of experimentation, you might want to try a set of Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats before you start buying and replacing pickups. So far, they are the brightest flatwound strings I've used, even brighter than new D'Addario Chromes.

I'd like to try those, that would definitely resolve the output issue. They definitely seem like my taste.

The only thing is I'm really digging the rotos, even the stiffness that people don't like about them. Never had strings that sounded so balanced from E to G. I like them so much that's it got me thinking which pickup will bring the best out of those strings and not the other way around, which I admit is probably not the right way to think about it lol

 

[Ptbakes77]

I use the benefit of crazy hot Model P (EB Cobalt flat loaded )to push the SGT overdrive on my Rb combo, along with both Ultra hi/Lo engage, she sound more clanky angry massive than other overwound alnico V P pickups i been use included the 13K wound one.

I really like the sound of that! I think when I got the PV 63 I was thinking I just wanted a really nice clean standard P sound but now thinking I want something a bit meaner

Edit.
Just like most people, i lower the Model P pickups height almost flush on pickguard to reduce the crazy output, but, i can hear she sound different compare to pickups height in normal setting (2.8mm E , 2.4mm G). Lacking the signature mid growl and blank sounding !

I believe Dimarzio create the Model P purpose to push any tube head for that iconic 70s angry P vibe !

Interesting, I know thats another good thing about the Model P, the adjustable poles. Im thinking I might want crazy output to offset the monel Roto strings.

But I don't have tube anything so maybe it doesn't matter and I just have G.A.S.!

 

[Yahboy]

I really like the sound of that! I think when I got the PV 63 I was thinking I just wanted a really nice clean standard P sound but now thinking I want something a bit meaner



Interesting, I know thats another good thing about the Model P, the adjustable poles. Im thinking I might want crazy output to offset the monel Roto strings.

But I don't have tube anything so maybe it doesn't matter and I just have G.A.S.!

I don't know does this kind of bass tone you looking for or not, but the Model P on my another P sound much more clanky and angry than this one.

Fender Vintera 50s P stock pickup + Ti flat.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Personally I think the PV63 is a very dull sounding pickup. Bloated lows/low mids, rolled off highs and slightly lacking in the upper midrang presence for a P-bass. The only thing that's "63" about this pickup is the model name. It doesn't sound even remotely like any true early 60s P-basses I've played. The specs also suggest an overwound P-bass pickup, rather than a "vintage voiced" P-bass pickup. To me the PV63 sounds like a parody of a 60s P-bass tone, like they were aiming for a heavily processed, recorded tone from that era (and failed miserably). The output is perhaps slightly higher than average for a P-bass pickup, but nothing crazy. Certainly nowhere near the output of the Model P. I can enjoy the PV63 and get a decent tone with roundwounds, but I found it WAY too muddy/dull with flats.

The Model P is a completely different pickup, both tonally and by design (ceramic bar magnet rather than alnico pole pieces). The output is a LOT higher than "normal" P-bass pickups. The highs are somewhat rolled off compared to most "normal" P-bass pickups so it's probably not the best choice if you want a "hi-fi" tone with lots of zing, but the upper mids are very present/aggressive. Much more so than with the PV63. The lower mids/lows are FAT but not as bloated as the PV63, much tighter. I love the Model P for SOME types of music, but it's a tone I always seem to grow tired of. The Model P is unbeatable at what it does, but perhaps not the best allrounder. I always end up going back to more classic "vintage" P-bass tones.

If you want a classic/vintage P-bass tone that's leaning slightly towards aggressive upper mids (rather than a smoother tone or extended frequency range) I would recommend the Fender Original (or whatever it's called these days) and the Lollar standard wind. But neither have the insane output of the Model P (in fact, they're both probably also SLIGHTLY less output than the PV63).

Roto flats DO have considerably lower output than most strings. Normally I would say "use the volume control on your amp" but if you use dirt pedals Roto flats can actually limit the amount of dirt you can get from your pedal(s). One solution could be a clean boost pedal in front of your dirt pedal(s). That's what I would do, rather then compromising the tone by choosing a pickup for max output rather than the best TONE. I use Roto flats myself. I love them, amazing tone, particularly the mids. I use them with a standard passive P-bass and I've never found the low output to be a problem. I simply turn up the amp and get all the tube dirt I need. But I don't use aggressive dirt pedals that I need to squeeze the last drop of dirt out of. That's a scenario where the low output from Roto flats may actually be a problem, and the Model P might just be the answer. Based on your description I think it will at least be a better choice for you than the lacklustre (IMO) PV63.

 

[Ptbakes77]

That's very helpful. I was noticing there was a lot more mud when I put on the flats where I was cutting at 100 and 200hz more than id like to.

I'm not huge fan of zing so I might appreciate the Model P for that. I'd definitely look into the Fender Original (not 62?) or Lollar. @Deleted member 271037 if mud is a concern overwound might be a bad idea?

I don't use a heavy amount of overdrive just the standard Sansamp tube emulation drive. I was wondering if the reason that the reason heavier overdrive doesn't sound good with my current setup is because of the very clean processed tone of the PV 63, but also I've heard generally the Sansamp drive isn't that good to begin with.

Ultimately since I'm running solid state everything I'm wondering if my concern about my output even matters because it's not gonna break up like tubes anyway. But maybe that makes the output to the pedals even more important?

 

[Deleted member 271037]

That's very helpful. I was noticing there was a lot more mud when I put on the flats where I was cutting at 100 and 200hz more than id like to.

I'm not huge fan of zing so I might appreciate the Model P for that. I'd definitely look into the Fender Original (not 62?) or Lollar. @Deleted member 271037 if mud is a concern overwound might be a bad idea?

I don't use a heavy amount of overdrive just the standard Sansamp tube emulation drive. I was wondering if the reason that the reason heavier overdrive doesn't sound good with my current setup is because of the very clean processed tone of the PV 63, but also I've heard generally the Sansamp drive isn't that good to begin with.

Ultimately since I'm running solid state everything I'm wondering if my concern about my output even matters because it's not gonna break up like tubes anyway. But maybe that makes the output to the pedals even more important?

If mud is a concern then yes, overwound is probably a bad idea (IMO and for MY taste anyway).

The Fender "Original" has changed names several times in the past. It used to be called the "Original 62", then the "Original" and now I think it MIGHT be the "Pure Vintage '62". At least that's the only current Fender P-bass pickup with the same beveled pole pieces as the "Original". I haven't actually tested the PV62 though, so for all I know it might be a different pickup with a different tone.

The Original is/was slightly more aggressive in the upper mids and had perhaps slightly leaner/tighter lows/low mids than your average "vintage voiced" P-bass pickup. Looking at Fender's published specs you would perhaps expect it to be more or less identical to the "Custom Shop 62" but it isn't. The "Original" is leaning slightly towards an underwound/70s Fender tone IMO. Quite aggressive in the upper mids.

Still, when comparing "vintage voiced" P-bass pickups we're usually comparing VERY marginal differences. I could easily use standard wind pickups from Lollar, Fralin and many others, as well as the Fender Original or the Fender Custom Shop 62 or the EMG GZR, etc. etc. and get a good, classic P-bass tone out of it.

But the PV63 is VERY different, much darker/muddier than what I would consider a classic, vintage P-bass tone.

The Model P is also VERY different of course, but personally I like that one much better than the PV63. Also, none of the other pickups mentioned in this post will give you anywhere near the same output as the Model P. If higher output is important to you, the Model P might be the best choice. But based on what you just wrote, I suspect you may want to cut some 100-200 Hz with the Model P too. It's certainly "fatter" than your average P-bass pickup in that area. Huge mids is what the Model P is all about. But it's nowhere near as bloated in the lows as the PV63.

 

[manchego_eggo]

if you're considering the Model P, Id suggest checking out the new Relentless P, which a modern update to the Model P, and the Relentless Middle (theres one in the classifieds for 75 right now), which is Billy Sheehan's signature pickup, which is a heavily modified Model P.

The Dimarzio sixties is also similar the Fender 63 so the below comparison would be helpful. The "new model P" is actually the Relentless P.

 

[Erik Turkman]

I’m with Sorrow on this. The Original P ‘62, or whatever they’re calling it now, is what you’re after. The Model P slams, but is hot and modern. It almost sounds active. The PV63 was too dark and got lost in the mix for my taste.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I’m with Sorrow on this. The Original P ‘62, or whatever they’re calling it now, is what you’re after. The Model P slams, but is hot and modern. It almost sounds active. The PV63 was too dark and got lost in the mix for my taste.

The thing I noticed the most about the PV63 is the lowest notes sound a bit murky. And I always use roundwounds on my P-Bass. I think I also noticed the G-string lacked output. I experimented a bunch lowering and raising the pickup, and it didn’t seem to help.

Because I wanted to stick with a more vintage sounding pickup, I replaced the PV63 with a Nordstrand NP4.

But I’ve been think A LOT buying another P-Bass and putting a Model P in it. I’ve been playing some heavier Rock music, and I know that Model P sound will be perfect for it.

 

[SharpCat]

Funny story...I just swapped out a Model P for a PV62 in one of my basses. Like it quite a bit more. But I'm a vintage fan. The PV62 when it arrived the packaging says Original 62. So same thing, it seems. Recommended.

I also like Dimarzio Sixties and Relentless pickups. Also recommended. I'd probably go with the Relentless over the Model P for more modern sound, but the looks are not traditional. (Classy though, IMHO.)

 

[Ricky Rioli]

cool cream covers

Fralins come with those, if you ask for them....

 

[Ptbakes77]

if you're considering the Model P, Id suggest checking out the new Relentless P, which a modern update to the Model P, and the Relentless Middle (theres one in the classifieds for 75 right now), which is Billy Sheehan's signature pickup, which is a heavily modified Model P.

The Dimarzio sixties is also similar the Fender 63 so the below comparison would be helpful. The "new model P" is actually the Relentless P.

Helpful video! The Relentless P does sound very nice and hi-fi. I think my favorite was the 60s model, so maybe everyone talking about the Fender '62 is on to something. I'd be curious about how the bass is setup cuz the Model P does indeed sound very dark here.

 

[Ptbakes77]

I’m with Sorrow on this. The Original P ‘62, or whatever they’re calling it now, is what you’re after. The Model P slams, but is hot and modern. It almost sounds active. The PV63 was too dark and got lost in the mix for my taste.

When it comes to Model P I'm so confused about what modern means! I typically associate it with not just high output but hi-fi/full range/scooped, which doesn't seem to be how the P is. But I'm digging what I'm hearing about the '62

 

[Ptbakes77]

I also like Dimarzio Sixties and Relentless pickups. Also recommended. I'd probably go with the Relentless over the Model P for more modern sound, but the looks are not traditional. (Classy though, IMHO.)

Yeah lol I'm little vain but the Relentless does look funky to me, though I'm sure there's probably a good reason for it.

@SharpCat @Erik Turkman When it comes to the Model P I'm real confused about the vintage/modern terminology. I think a lot of the basses on records I like from the '70s use P's so that's certainly a type of vintage, sits in the usual P bass pocket. I know it's hot but it doesn't sound scooped like a Quarter Pounder for example, which is what I think of as modern.

Judging from the replies I think I might be looking for something more traditionally "vintage" like the Fender PV '62