Double Bass Fifths tuning Eb,Bb,F,C

[Kristian]

Aaah of course!
Also, im considering getting the string lenght of my new bass made to 94 cm or smaller. Any negative experiences with that, or anything to look out for?

Thank you.

the only problem is that there are no strings for these stringlengths. You’ll either have to accept the lower tension that you’ll get and a very thumpy sound or put together a set yourself, to get more tension and sustain.
Or get a hand made set for your bass.

On my bass right now I have a spiro low B tuned to C, spiro solo F# tuned to G, a normal spiro D, a spiro G tuned to A and the Passione high C tuned to E.

you get less sub bass and slightly less volume with a smaller instrument, but that’s not an issue for me.

 

[Malthe Buster]

the only problem is that there are no strings for these stringlengths. You’ll either have to accept the lower tension that you’ll get and a very thumpy sound or put together a set yourself, to get more tension and sustain.
Or get a hand made set for your bass.

On my bass right now I have a spiro low B tuned to C, spiro solo F# tuned to G, a normal spiro D, a spiro G tuned to A and the Passione high C tuned to E.

you get less sub bass and slightly less volume with a smaller instrument, but that’s not an issue for me.

Yeah that is my worry. luckily spirocore makes regular tuning strings for short string lengths, but that dosen't help the fifths tuning folk.
Thanks a lot!

 

[Kristian]

Yeah that is my worry. luckily spirocore makes regular tuning strings for short string lengths, but that dosen't help the fifths tuning folk.
Thanks a lot!

Yes, but those strings are made for children and has very low tension…

I’m quite happy with my current setup.
I’ll probably try some spiro starks as well..

 

[DoubleMIDI]

the only problem is that there are no strings for these stringlengths. You’ll either have to accept the lower tension that you’ll get and a very thumpy sound or put together a set yourself, to get more tension and sustain.
Or get a hand made set for your bass.

On my bass right now I have a spiro low B tuned to C, spiro solo F# tuned to G, a normal spiro D, a spiro G tuned to A and the Passione high C tuned to E.

you get less sub bass and slightly less volume with a smaller instrument, but that’s not an issue for me.

The Passione high C must have a lot more tension than your other strings on your instrument.
The tension for the high C at E on your instrument is 30% higher than intended on a 105 cm 3/4 at high C pitch.

Your Spiro G Mittel 4/4 at A on 95 cm: 28.2 kp
(If it is a 3/4 Mittel at A on 95 cm: 32.1 kp)

Your Passione high C at high E at 95 cm: 39.4 kp

My recommendations for a high E on your 1/4 scale instrument:

An NS Electric Traditional high C at high E on 95 cm: 30,34 kp
Pyramid Soloflex high C at high E on 95 cm: 32.37 kp

Almost any other string that is still available is above that.
Or it has a synthetic core like Super Sensitive Sensicore (aluminium wound, I broke one when tuning up four halftones on a 110 cm scale): 24.4 kp (High E on 95 cm, still 130% there)

The NS EUB string (the Traditional is a shorter version of a Helicore Orchestral) would be my favorite. I hope it would fit the shorter scale up to the nut.

The Pyramid is a special order. Directly at the factory in Germany. Not too expensive. Core is a 4-strand braided steel core made from solid steel wires, so a bit bright sounding.

The Sensicore sounded weak to me. I tuned it higher to try if if sounds better up there, but at a major third up on my 110 cm scale which is almost the same as a fourth up on a standard 105 cm scale the string broke. It might hold on your instrument as a high E but there is still a much higher risk of breaking.

All this was calculated with my public tools, the “recalculation …” Excel file, Formulas.html from my Dropbox and a few of my own tension measurements for the Spiro Weich high C (special order from Thomastik, they don’t specify if for 4/4 or 3/4 but does fit the 3/4 set better) and the Pyramid Soloflex high C.

 

[Kristian]

The Passione high C must have a lot more tension than your other strings on your instrument. The tension for the high C at E on your instrument is 30% higher than intended on a 105 cm 3/4 at high C pitch.

Your Spiro G Mittel 4/4 at A on 95 cm: 28.2 kp
(If it is a 3/4 Mittel at A on 95 cm: 32.1 kp)

My recommendations for a high E on your 1/4 scale instrument:

An NS Electric Traditional high C at high E on 95 cm: 30,34 kp
Pyramid Soloflex high C at high E on 95 cm: 32.37 kp

Almost any other string that is still available is above that.
Or it has a synthetic core like Super Sensitive Sensicore (aluminium wound, I broke one when tuning up four halftones on a 110 cm scale): 24.4 kp (High E on 95 cm, still 130% there)

The NS EUB string (the Traditional is a shorter version of a Helicore Orchestral) would be my favorite. I hope it would fit the shorter scale up to the nut.

The Pyramid is a special order. Directly at the factory in Germany. Not too expensive. Core is a 4-strand braided steel core made from solid steel wires, so a bit bright sounding.

The Sensicore sounded weak to me. I tuned it higher to try if if sounds better up there, but at a major third up on my 110 cm scale which is almost the same as a fourth up on a standard 105 cm scale the string broke. It might hold on your instrument as a high E but there is still a much higher risk of breaking.

All this was calculated with my public tools, the “recalculation …” Excel file, Formulas.html from my Dropbox and a few of my own tension measurements for the Spiro Weich high C (special order from Thomastik, they don’t specify if for 4/4 or 3/4 but does fit the 3/4 set better) and the Pyramid Soloflex high C.

Thank you very much!

The Passione is indeed very high tension at this Pitch but it works and it’s thicker than all other steel strings that I’ve tried.
How about the thickness of the NS EUB and the pyramid? Are they thicker than the spiro high C for example?

I have an obligatio and a evah pirazzi high D string (that I tune to E) as well but I’m not so fond of the bowed sound….

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Thank you very much!

The Passione is indeed very high tension at this Pitch but it works and it’s thicker than all other steel strings that I’ve tried.
How about the thickness of the NS EUB and the pyramid? Are they thicker than the spiro high C for example?

I have an obligatio and a evah pirazzi high D string (that I tune to E) as well but I’m not so fond of the bowed sound….

I can measure the Pyramid, but I do not have the NS. Better ask for the diameter in the EUB forum. Maybe someone there can measure it.
A thin string is not so bad if the tension is lower. The Passione might be thicker because of the added damping material and the medium high tension. on the other hand, if the string is too thick (Obligato), it doesn’t sound good up the fingerboard or on shorter scales.

Strings with more elastic cores need less force to get pressed down, but too elastic and there is a dynamic limit (EP Weich).

High C strings are difficult enough , but using it as an high E in a fifth tuning can get highly problematic.
It highly depends on what is more important to you, similar tension, similar sound, not cutting into the finger etc.
This is a personal choice. I can only give hints for tension, you must try yourself finally.
As I sometimes use the Soloflex on my 110 cm at high C (about 11% higher tension than on 105 cm) I can imagine that it would be a bit unpleasant for me, but probably playable. It is a bit springy out of the sleeve due to the woven solid steel strands of the core.

BTW, can you measure the diameter of your Passione, just to get an impression how thick it is?

I forgot to mention
All at high E on 95 cm:
Spiro Weich High C: 34.6 kp
Spiro Mittel 4/4 high C: 35.5 kp
Pirastro Oliv high C: 35.1 kp
Pirastro Eudoxa high C: 35.2 kp

The Spiro Weich high C is special order from Pirastro (Barry Guy string).

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Diameters high C strings:
Soloflex: 0.833 mm
Spiro Mittel 4/4: 0.834 mm

 

[Kristian]

Diameters high C strings:
Soloflex: 0.833 mm
Spiro Mittel 4/4: 0.834 mm

Thanks!
I don’t have the tools to measure it properly but it seems to be around 1mm.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I once bought a cheap micrometer for measuring string diameters (at a supermarket, below 10€) but my digital scale works well too.

 

[Malthe Buster]

I can measure the Pyramid, but I do not have the NS. Better ask for the diameter in the EUB forum. Maybe someone there can measure it.
A thin string is not so bad if the tension is lower. The Passione might be thicker because of the added damping material and the medium high tension. on the other hand, if the string is too thick (Obligato), it doesn’t sound good up the fingerboard or on shorter scales.

Strings with more elastic cores need less force to get pressed down, but too elastic and there is a dynamic limit (EP Weich).

High C strings are difficult enough , but using it as an high E in a fifth tuning can get highly problematic.
It highly depends on what is more important to you, similar tension, similar sound, not cutting into the finger etc.
This is a personal choice. I can only give hints for tension, you must try yourself finally.
As I sometimes use the Soloflex on my 110 cm at high C (about 11% higher tension than on 105 cm) I can imagine that it would be a bit unpleasant for me, but probably playable. It is a bit springy out of the sleeve due to the woven solid steel strands of the core.

BTW, can you measure the diameter of your Passione, just to get an impression how thick it is?

I forgot to mention
All at high E on 95 cm:
Spiro Weich High C: 34.6 kp
Spiro Mittel 4/4 high C: 35.5 kp
Pirastro Oliv high C: 35.1 kp
Pirastro Eudoxa high C: 35.2 kp

The Spiro Weich high C is special order from Pirastro (Barry Guy string).

Why is the Spiro Weich high C from Pirastro? How would one get hold of one? Should i just contact Pirastro by mail?

From the calculations you made it dosen’t look like there is very much tension difference between the weich and mittel c string at the same scale. Is the weich really any different?

Thanks a lot!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Why is the Spiro Weich high C from Pirastro? How would one get hold of one? Should i just contact Pirastro by mail?

From the calculations you made it dosen’t look like there is very much tension difference between the weich and mittel c string at the same scale. Is the weich really any different?

Thanks a lot!

Well, the Spiro is from Thomastik, of course.
If you want to get one, you have to contact Thomastik directly (it’s a special order). You cannot get it from any distributors.
I think it is more a sound difference than a tension difference. It was developed for Barry Guy in the UK. Since 3/4 Spiros are more common in Europe than in the US where they typically sell 4/4 Spiros, the 3/4 Spiro high C might have had too much tension or didn’t sound the way Mr. Guy wants it to do. (Don’t try to contact him, I tried once and his wife made it very clear that he doesn’t want to be contacted about strings.)
A Thomastik representative told me that it is for both 3/4 and 4/4 scales (which as we know due to the different tension at both scale lengths couldn’t be ideal). So, according to my measurements, it fits the 3/4 set a lot better than the 4/4.

 

[Malthe Buster]

Oh, that

Well, the Spiro is from Thomastik, of course.
If you want to get one, you have to contact Thomastik directly (it’s a special order). You cannot get it from any distributors.
I think it is more a sound difference than a tension difference. It was developed for Barry Guy in the UK. Since 3/4 Spiros are more common in Europe than in the US where they typically sell 4/4 Spiros, the 3/4 Spiro high C might have had too much tension or didn’t sound the way Mr. Guy wants it to do. (Don’t try to contact him, I tried once and his wife made it very clear that he doesn’t want to be contacted about strings.)
A Thomastik representative told me that it is for both 3/4 and 4/4 scales (which as we know due to the different tension at both scale lengths couldn’t be ideal). So, according to my measurements, it fits the 3/4 set a lot better than the 4/4.

Okay, that makes sense. I'll probably buy both to see what is best, also because contacting him obviously isn't an option. Thanks!