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Double Bass Finally a Bowable Bace

#23
Oscar Stern said:
Ah but it depends on the size.
Click to expand...

How much do you think air weighs?

Yes, a smaller bass has less wood, but the ratio of the wood to the air increases for a smaller bass.

Code: 
@ def volume(r: Double): Double = 4.0 / 3.0 * pi * (r * r * r)
defined function volume

@ (volume(5.1) - volume(5)) / volume(5.1)
res10: Double = 0.05767766545295534

@ (volume(10.1) - volume(10)) / volume(10.1)
res11: Double = 0.029409852072355372
 
#24
Mark_T said:
How much do you think air weighs?

Yes, a smaller bass has less wood, but the ratio of the wood to the air increases for a smaller bass.

Code: 
@ def volume(r: Double): Double = 4.0 / 3.0 * pi * (r * r * r)
defined function volume

@ (volume(5.1) - volume(5)) / volume(5.1)
res10: Double = 0.05767766545295534

@ (volume(10.1) - volume(10)) / volume(10.1)
res11: Double = 0.029409852072355372
Click to expand...

Of course, the numbers here are made up and this is of course for a spherical bass, but the principle is the same.

It's the same reason why my kids' mountain bikes weigh almost as much as mine. You can't make the parts that much lighter and have them hold up. The walls of the frame have to be about the same thickness and in the end you just end up with a lot of material.
 
#27
Mark_T said:
Let me know when a band requests it or someone writes a concerto for it.
Click to expand...
My Concert Band uses the Bace (an Acoustic-Electric Bass made from a Cello Body with a Bass Guitar neck) so we can hear it over the Accordion section as our Concert Band has an Accordion section which doubles all the other instruments.
 
Last edited:
#28
This discussion can get pretty heated so I am going to try and ground it a bit. I understand the urge to make an easier to handle upright bass. People have tried to do so for at least a century. They all come up against the same problems due to physics. The notes on the bass require a fairly large resonant chamber to work as an audible acoustic instrument. The smaller you make the body the harder it is to get sufficient volume. If you want to have a good bowing experience, you need a certain amount of tension. With a shorter sting length, you need a different string to have the same tension at the same pitch. There are ways to construct strings so they have a higher tension, including different cores and different diameters, but at a certain point they sound different, respond differently etc.

I am not saying it can't be done, but there is a reason people continue to play these large, awkward to move instruments that are expensive and prone to needing expensive repairs.
 
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#29
RSBBass said:
This discussion can get pretty heated so I am going to try and ground it a bit. I understand the urge to make an easier to handle upright bass. People have tried to do so for at least a century. They all come up against the same problems due to physics. The notes on the bass require a fairly large resonant chamber to work as an audible acoustic instrument. The smaller you make the body the harder it is to get sufficient volume. If you want to have a good bowing experience, you need a certain amount of tension. With a shorter sting length, you need a different string to have the same tension at the same pitch. There are ways to construct strings so they have a higher tension, including different cores and different diameters, but at a certain point they sound different, respond differently etc.

I am not saying it can't be done, but there is a reason people continue to play these large, awkward to move instruments that are expensive and prone to needing expensive repairs.
Click to expand...
There is a compact alternative. It's called a steel string bass guitar with electromagnetic pickups. There are good reasons why working musicians bought them up as fast as Fender could make them, back in the 50s.
 
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#30
I just went to the Bace website, and while the cello body with bass guitar neck looks like a pain-in-the-neck instrument that I personally would never buy, the description seems pretty darn clear. It's really an acoustic bass guitar with a novelty body. As long as they're honest about what they're selling (and it appears that they are, they don't claim that it sounds identical to or plays anything like a DB), I don't have any problem with it.

Well, maybe one problem: it says it takes 4/4 bass strings. I don't see how that's supposed to work.
 
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#32
turf3 said:
There is a compact alternative. It's called a steel string bass guitar with electromagnetic pickups. There are good reasons why working musicians bought them up as fast as Fender could make them, back in the 50s.
Click to expand...
Obviously, but they are not acoustic instruments and you can't bow them. Even when playing pizzicato they sound different. There are a number of instruments that play in the same range but they all sound different.
 
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#33
A new thread on an age old tale. Double bass players will never like someone suggesting a new shortcut to learning or playing a double bass. Shortcuts are always going to be an insult to players who have done the work and resent someone trying to jump to the head of the line. That's just life. So far there is nothing that sounds like a double bass other than a double bass. To my ear nothing ever really comes close. Some of these contraptions have their own sound and some people may like them, fine. A good player can make good music out of anything. But a double bass is complex instrument with an endless variety of sounds available if you put in the work. It is a difficult and rewarding quest. Most people will not go very far into it. Even professional players often stop short of pursuing all that is available on the instrument. Some, don't ever really want to get in the water at all and instead look for a quick way to get some of the sounds without doing any of the work. That is up to the individual. Lifers know that this is folly and what they will get will be subpar in almost every way but the truth is, many people don't know the difference. Even in the professional music world there are many musicians that don't really listen, don't really develop their ears, their understanding of sound, their voice on an instrument. Some just buy another pedal, amp, plug-in etc to get the sound they want. Double bass players know different. A 300 year old italian bass will sound like nothing particular in a newbies hands. The player has to develop a sound from scratch. It's difficult and personal. And that's where some of the vitriol comes in when someone shows up with the latest greatest shortcut to playing an upright bass. A person can play anything they want and make good music with it but an upright bass is very special and we all know there is no shortcut and there never will be. It's nothing to get mad about, we are upright players and we know what we know.
 
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#34
The funny thing is, instead of all this thrashing around, you can rent a decent quality student instrument, engage a qualified instructor, take weekly lessons, PRACTICE, and in a year you're actually sounding decent, on the real thing. In two or three years you're sounding darn good (not, of course, professional level). So why spend those three years fiddly-dicking around with this fake thing and that fake thing and "bowable cellos that you can play horizontally like a guitar if your arms are seven feet long" and suchlike?
 

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