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Finding Fret-board Notes Without Looking: How to do it - and - How long does it take?

Lamphun_Lamyai

Lamphun_Lamyai

Nov 22, 2024
110
103
#1
Sometimes I check out concert videos and sort of just marvel at how effortless musicians make their playing look.
No downward glances at the fretboard, able to sing and play at the same time - effortless.

I do try to work on that. I spend some of my practice time consciously not looking at the fretboard and just doing my best to intrinsically "feel" where the fretboard notes are. And one of the things that is beginning to make that easier is that I having success at developing a mental map of notes on the fretboard.

One question would be, "How long does it take to get to that level of proficiency," but I know it depends on a number of factors including how much you practice as well as how you practice.

So my core question is, "How do you best develop the skill of navigating the fretboard without looking?" And I'm sure the answers could be as varied as the playing styles of individual bassist, but I'm going to toss that question out there anyway. Did you have specific techniques that helped you develop that skill?

So I'm looking for advice, suggestions, and guidance on how other more advanced players on Talk Bass were able to develop that skill over time: Fretting accurately without looking at the fretboard?
 
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#2
after a while I just noticed I didn't have to look. But it helps to look because that's how I learned it all those years ago. I was just listening to a recording of a jazz session I played on one day and noticed that my fretless notes were in tune even though I didn't look at the neck because I was reading. Then I realized I could already play blind and didn't even know. Try it. See where you get.
 
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#5
Theres alot of "feel" involved with no-look playing. And this is how I know.
From the very beginning of my playing, I've also been a primary singer, in every band I've been in. How long it took to develop the ability to play without looking is hard to pinpoint because it just developed with practice until one day it was just "there".
But.... It was REAL easy to pinpoint when I  lost the ability. I was playing a festival in the late 90s when my hands went numb. I thought I might be having a heart attack, but no.
It turned out to be Carple Tunnel.
The take away was I had to "look down" and twist my head on the microphone to see where I was. I had been playing no look for a couple of decades until suddenly, I couldn't.
Playing while singing, over time, will train your hands, to know where they are.
After getting treated, my ability returned. Start singin! 😲
 
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#7
A few practice exercises that can help develop this skill:

Practice your one-finger-per-fret exercises every day. Every finger on every string, covering a 4-fret span. Then start doing permutations, instead of 1234 ascending and 4321 descending mix it up. When you can go 2134 ascending and 4312 descending, or any variation thereof, you'll develop a lot of muscle memory that teaches your fingers to land right where they are supposed to.

One octave slides are an easy way to hear if you are correct or not without looking. Slide from the 1st fret to the 13th, the 3rd to the 15th, etc. It becomes very easy to hear and adjust when you are off, which means you don't have to look to find the right landing spot. Again, building muscle memory.

Spend time with your instrument while doing other things, like watching TV. The distraction will pull your attention away from the fretboard so you'll be playing without looking. Your hands will start to find their way and map out the positions and distances even when you aren't actively working at it, just by spending more hours with your fingers around the neck.
 
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#8
No idea honestly.

But yes, I can do it.

I still do prefer to have the comfort of being able to verify my position visually though, but I do not really need to.

I suppose the answer just would be practice, that is general practice getting comfortable with the fretboard of your bass, not with closed eyes in specifics.

I would think it would be very individually how long it would take to be able to do so though.

I can't sing and play bass though, if my life depended on it, at least not if the rhythm/melody of the bass line diverge much from the vocal melody line.
 
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#10
The absolute best way I’ve found for learning where the notes are on your fretboard is reading. The rest is muscle memory and time. But reading will force you to get used to playing without constantly looking at your fretboard and it will also force you (if you read the right music) to play all over the board. I highly recommend Jeff Berlin’s reading package.
 
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#11
Reading music will make you play and not look at the fretboard, as you have to look at the page and notes and not your fretboard to be able to do it.
It's really good eye/hand coordination work.
It's interesting how so many bassists don't want to read music or learn to read, I started in High School Jazz Band and reading music was one of the first things they taught. Along with basic theory, improv, ear training and playing live with others. Super valuable stuff for a musician.
Learning to read, or practicing it on a steady basis if you already can will also teach you a lot more than just playing without looking at the fretboard, agree with @bass12 that musical practice Etudes, like Jeff Berlin's reading packages will teach you to use the whole fretboard and make you work on better more efficient fingerings also. I played through Berlin's packages #1 and #2, I have package #3 but I'm playing through John Patitucci's "60 melodic Etudes" now so that'll take me a while before I go back to Berlin's stuff. I play through a lot of Bach Cellos suites also, some are real finger stretchers.
Good luck!
 
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#12
Lamphun_Lamyai said:
So I'm looking for advice, suggestions, and guidance on how other more advanced players on Talk Bass were able to develop that skill over time: Fretting accurately without looking at the fretboard?+
Click to expand...
There might be many things to try and some might work, but this one is cast-iron sure-fire guaranteed, unless you are a chameleon:

bass12 said:
...
The absolute best way I’ve found for learning where the notes are on your fretboard is reading.
...
Click to expand...
FearNoEvil65 said:
...
Reading music will make you play and not look at the fretboard, as you have to look at the page and notes and not your fretboard to be able to do it.
...
Click to expand...
The ironic thing is, part of being a more proficient reader is the ability to look away from the page and back again without losing your place...
 
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#13
I’m going to tell you a story, and the answer is buried inside it. It’s a true story. Not a fable or parable.

I was a mediocre bass player for 10 years. Then I started to get better jobs, play better music, and get better. So I bought a really good bass, and took lessons from a college jazz instructor. Within a year I was much better, and I could pretty much feel the notes without looking. I had a real good sense for my fingerboard.

Then I moved to a different country, without my bass, so I bought a similar replacement. But it was 35 inch scale, not 34 inch like before. It was deceptively hard to get used to, and the muscle memory I had developed with a 34 inch scale, wasn’t working with a 35 inch scale. I know, I know it’s only one extra inch, but man, it threw me off.

Well, a year later I got my original bass back, and all was right with the world. But I couldn’t feel the notes anymore. No matter how much I worked on it, I could not seem to find them without looking.

So guess how long it took me to get that back?

It’s 20 years later, and I still haven’t.
 
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#19
I had a fairly long career. Never reached the point where I never have to look at the neck under any circumstance, but I don't have to look a lot.

How long it takes varies with the instrument and your level of natural ability. In the early 80s, a local music store I used to frequent had a Gibson Victory bass that I demoed many times. The Victory has a unique neck that gets progressively thicker as you play up the fingerboard. I found that after playing it for a very short time that my shifting accuracy seemed to improve considerably.

I contrast the bass I owned was a Ric 4001. The 4001's neck maintains the same dimensions from the headstock to the body of the bass. I struggled to shift accurately on this bass because there are no physical references to help gauge where your your hand is.

Prior to playing bass guitar I played double bass. Double bass gives you a lot of physical references, so I learned fairly quickly how to shift with looking looking very often. However, even top pros may put a reference mark at a point where they have to make a large difficult shift that is exposed.

Since about 1995, my #1 BG has been a Yamaha TRB6P. No idea how long it took, but I usually don't have to look at the neck too much.

.
 
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