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Fingerstyle vs. Slap: drop in output

Jan 23, 2005
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Tri-state
How many bassists out there experience a drop in volume when switching to slap? I studied the technique extensively in my younger years, and retained enough skill with it to execute the small handful of songs in the repertoire that I'm responsible for.

In my fingerstyle playing, I tend to use more of my fingers than some other people might. I start the string kind of half way between the tip and first knuckle. This is probably a consequence of having played and studied a lot of double bass in school and out in the world. It produces a MUCH louder and forceful note than I can ever manage to get out of my thumb and index finger when slap/popping.

Anybody have tips or tricks to bring my slap volume up to my fingerstyle volume? Is it a technique issue or should I address this with gain staging/compression? What ends up happening is I'll start a song that slaps, but when I simply disappear from the mix I switch back to fingerstyle and the subs start pumping again.
 
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The obvious answer is that it's likely EQ, you are dialed in for the tone and gain level you produce with fingerstyle playing and your technique with the thumb is targeting a different space in the mix, and you might be facing a lot more competition for the midrange frequencies that define your slap tone, whereas your fingerstyle tone is sliding in underneath most of the other sounds on stage.

What's your EQ look like? What settings are you using on amp, bass, etc? And how hard do you pluck, and where do you pluck, with your fingers?

If you dig in hard over the neck pickup, then switch to a very light slap, it'll disappear of course. But some people might pluck by the bridge, so they cut out the upper mids to keep it from getting too harsh and brittle. Then they go to slap and those upper mids are what make the pop snap sharply through the mix, but you cut that frequency out, so it vanishes.

We could guess at a number of causes and suggest solutions but it would be easier to start with some gear info or even a quick video of you demonstrating both techniques with the same settings.
 
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The obvious answer is that it's likely EQ, you are dialed in for the tone and gain level you produce with fingerstyle playing and your technique with the thumb is targeting a different space in the mix, and you might be facing a lot more competition for the midrange frequencies that define your slap tone, whereas your fingerstyle tone is sliding in underneath most of the other sounds on stage.

What's your EQ look like? What settings are you using on amp, bass, etc? And how hard do you pluck, and where do you pluck, with your fingers?

If you dig in hard over the neck pickup, then switch to a very light slap, it'll disappear of course. But some people might pluck by the bridge, so they cut out the upper mids to keep it from getting too harsh and brittle. Then they go to slap and those upper mids are what make the pop snap sharply through the mix, but you cut that frequency out, so it vanishes.

We could guess at a number of causes and suggest solutions but it would be easier to start with some gear info or even a quick video of you demonstrating both techniques with the same settings.

Alright, here's a rough approximation of my EQ setup.

Bass: Roscoe Bart preamp. Treble: rolled slightly down from center. Bass: boosted by 50%. Mids: knob pulled out for low mids, boosted 25%. I have the neck pickup solo'd. I will say that the neck pickup by itself produces more volume than both pickups together.

That goes into a sansamp VT bass where the character knob is pretty low, drive is set so there's no breakup at all, and EQ is flat. Speaker emulation is on.

As far as playing technique, I am slightly behind the neck pickup most of the time. As described in the OP I touch the strings in a similar way to playing DB, using a substantial amount of my finger to pluck the string. I do not slap lightly, but I'm not putting holes in my thumb, either.
 
Alright, here's a rough approximation of my EQ setup.

Bass: Roscoe Bart preamp. Treble: rolled slightly down from center. Bass: boosted by 50%. Mids: knob pulled out for low mids, boosted 25%. I have the neck pickup solo'd. I will say that the neck pickup by itself produces more volume than both pickups together.

That goes into a sansamp VT bass where the character knob is pretty low, drive is set so there's no breakup at all, and EQ is flat. Speaker emulation is on.

As far as playing technique, I am slightly behind the neck pickup most of the time. As described in the OP I touch the strings in a similar way to playing DB, using a substantial amount of my finger to pluck the string. I do not slap lightly, but I'm not putting holes in my thumb, either.

Before you switch over to slapping, I'd try balancing the pickups, boost the treble significantly, and if possible shift your mid control from lower to upper.

I find that when playing solo I'll get slap tones that are a bit too brittle and so I roll that high end off, but then I vanish in the mix, so I need that extra bite to cut through the mix.

Adding compression can help even things out too, but it's far from necessary.

Another technique approach is to turn your volume up and back off on your fingerstyle attack until the output level matches your slap. There's really no need to dig in so hard on electric bass, make the amp do the work for you and it simplifies so many technique issues.
 
I have the same problem - the bottom end reduces when I go from finger pluck to slap or pick.

I rewired my neck PU to do a coil tap. Its a passive humbucker. The vol control is now a push/push DPDT switch model, and I used that for a series/parallel option. That gave me a normal/boosted output as a quick onboard choice.

The boost was also good for plucked heavy reggae/dub bass.

Plenty of info elsewhere on this site.
 
There's really no need to dig in so hard on electric bass, make the amp do the work for you and it simplifies so many technique issues.
How much gain are you using in most situations? I have an overwhelming tendency to really dig in when I’m playing, especially if it’s a loud song. Maybe I listened to too much Rush. :D
 
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Before you switch over to slapping, I'd try balancing the pickups, boost the treble significantly, and if possible shift your mid control from lower to upper.

I find that when playing solo I'll get slap tones that are a bit too brittle and so I roll that high end off, but then I vanish in the mix, so I need that extra bite to cut through the mix.

Adding compression can help even things out too, but it's far from necessary.

Another technique approach is to turn your volume up and back off on your fingerstyle attack until the output level matches your slap. There's really no need to dig in so hard on electric bass, make the amp do the work for you and it simplifies so many technique issues.

The real problem is bass response. Yeah, the high end will cut through more if I boost the highs, but that still doesn't solve the problem of the bottom falling out.

Now that you mention it, I'm remembering that I do run a compressor on my board. It's very subtle though. I could try upping the comp a little bit and see what happens.

I fall in Patitucci's camp regarding digging in on the strings. Playing just a little harder, and with slightly more relief in the neck than the perfect flat that the Roscoe is capable of, gives me a much wider range of tones that I can pull out of the instrument. Oh, and I also usually don't play through an amp, it's mostly in-ears. But I notice a significant dropoff because I'm usually close to the subs and they just stop banging out the low notes when I start slapping.
 
The real problem is bass response. Yeah, the high end will cut through more if I boost the highs, but that still doesn't solve the problem of the bottom falling out.

Oh, and I also usually don't play through an amp, it's mostly in-ears. But I notice a significant dropoff because I'm usually close to the subs and they just stop banging out the low notes when I start slapping.

Slapping is going to have a lot less low end by nature, shorter percussive attacks are not going to give those big speakers the time to blast out big open low tones. If anything, your tone is probably going more through the mains and perhaps you are hearing an illusion based on stage/in-ears rather than the actual gain difference in the audience.

Do you have live recordings? Feedback from the sound engineer? People in the audience confirming this? Or is it just what you hear on stage in your in-ears?
 
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Pluck near the bridge and of course slap on the edge finger board and turn both pickups up. II do this with a simple jazz bass all thee time. Then EQ the preamp (pedal or amp) accordingly. Find a setting that works for both. Then practice balancing the sound and timbre. They are supposed to sound different. But the bass response does not have to be vastly different.
 
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How many bassists out there experience a drop in volume when switching to slap? I studied the technique extensively in my younger years, and retained enough skill with it to execute the small handful of songs in the repertoire that I'm responsible for.

In my fingerstyle playing, I tend to use more of my fingers than some other people might. I start the string kind of half way between the tip and first knuckle. This is probably a consequence of having played and studied a lot of double bass in school and out in the world. It produces a MUCH louder and forceful note than I can ever manage to get out of my thumb and index finger when slap/popping.

Anybody have tips or tricks to bring my slap volume up to my fingerstyle volume? Is it a technique issue or should I address this with gain staging/compression? What ends up happening is I'll start a song that slaps, but when I simply disappear from the mix I switch back to fingerstyle and the subs start pumping again.
I'd have to be in the room with the amp and maybe some level meters to know, but i think this might be an issue with perceived level vs actual level. There can be a difference, where something sounds less loud but the VU meters will be reading the same peak level or even higher peak level. This often happens when the peaks & transients are way louder than the body of the notes. The peaks are momentary and fleeting and your brain kinda just disregards them and just perceives the loudness of the less-loud body of the note.

This could be happening when you switch from finger to slap because in finger-style, the transients are roughly the same level as the body of the note and the body of the note sustains longer. The all the parts of the note are coming through at the same level. On the other hand, slapping is very fast transient heavy, and then really short note bodies that are way less loud than the initial attack, even though i bet if you were going direct into a DAW, the slap style would show higher dB peaks.

Fixing it is a mix of technique, compression, and EQ.

You mention your finger technique, but you didn't go into detail about your slap technique. There's a few different slap styles. The one you use will change how it sounds. Are you bouncing your thumb & string off the fretboard or are you slapping your thumb through the string?

- If you're bouncing your thumb & string off the fretboard (often either "Thumb Up" or "Thumb Down" method, where your thumb crosses the string) it's gonna be very transient/attack heavy, and will be less low end because the nature of smacking the string on the fretboard aggressively isn't conducive to the string reproducing that fundamental frequency.

- If you're slapping through the string (often called "thumb parallel"), the string will be able to produce more low end information, and there will also be less of a differential between the level of the transient and the body of the note.

Each slap style is completely legit, but they'll absolutely sound differently.

So adjust your technique to allow the string to vibrate more freely. And part of that technique is gonna include Gain/Compression/EQ. By making the amp and compressor do some of the work, you can slap "less hard" and get more low end from the technique. It's a feedback loop where the gear settings help the technique come alive, and the technique helps the gear do its job too.

For this situation i'd say Compress first, EQ second. (Although without hearing it, i'm just making an educated guess.) You're trying to use the compressor to tame those transients and bring them more in line with the rest of the note. You're going for the so-called Sausage Note Shape, not Traffic Cone Shape. Then do some makeup gain to bring the whole note back up a bit, and then EQ the lows if they're still lacking.
 
How many bassists out there experience a drop in volume when switching to slap? I studied the technique extensively in my younger years, and retained enough skill with it to execute the small handful of songs in the repertoire that I'm responsible for.

In my fingerstyle playing, I tend to use more of my fingers than some other people might. I start the string kind of half way between the tip and first knuckle. This is probably a consequence of having played and studied a lot of double bass in school and out in the world. It produces a MUCH louder and forceful note than I can ever manage to get out of my thumb and index finger when slap/popping.

Anybody have tips or tricks to bring my slap volume up to my fingerstyle volume? Is it a technique issue or should I address this with gain staging/compression? What ends up happening is I'll start a song that slaps, but when I simply disappear from the mix I switch back to fingerstyle and the subs start pumping again.

I have the same problem. I’m no slap artist, but what I’ve noticed is most slappers have a lighter plucking technique. You may want to try a ramp for training purposes.
 
I have the same problem. I’m no slap artist, but what I’ve noticed is most slappers have a lighter plucking technique. You may want to try a ramp for training purposes.

Again, my plucking technique and the setup of my instrument are premeditated. A ramp would ruin my desired fingerstyle sound. And tbh, I've always thought ramps to be a little silly. Slapping accounts for 1.5% of what I do, so if I can improve it under the rubric of my desired setup, I will, but I won't go to extremes.

Regarding my actual slap technique, it's pretty close to the Marcus Miller approach.
 
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...make the amp do the work for you and it simplifies so many technique issues.

This x 10,000 ^

Add an extra EQ pedal (before or after, whichever you try that works best) by your Sansamp pedal, tweak until you are getting similar output and cut from your slap tone.

(just a suggestion, don't take this as law) You may need to boost the bass even more, if you want that percussive thump to come through when you slap. Pull down the low-mids and start adding in some more high mids and a lot more treble. I'd keep both pickups on before you start EQ tweaking, as that will give a natural scoop to your tone, you can use the EQ pedal to adjust for volume differences (as most have a gain slider too). Thump around some and see what kind of cut you get playing along with songs (or at the venue during soundcheck). If you dig in hard when you play fingerstyle, no reason to not do the same when you slap/pop as well!! :bassist:


I'd start with the pickup balance and volume adjustment on current pedals, but I highly suggest the EQ pedal for ease of adjustment during gigs. Plenty of models that will do the job out there, but a used Boss GEB-7 won't hardly set you back at all, or one of the numerous GEQ pedals out there that are sub-$80. YMMV, hope this helps.
 
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SLAP VOLUME.jpg
 
Another technique approach is to turn your volume up and back off on your fingerstyle attack until the output level matches your slap. There's really no need to dig in so hard on electric bass, make the amp do the work for you and it simplifies so many technique issues.
That’s what I did 30 years ago. Can highly recommend it as it’s served me extremely well.

Find a setting that works for both. Then practice balancing the sound and timbre. They are supposed to sound different. But the bass response does not have to be vastly different.

So adjust your technique to allow the string to vibrate more freely. And part of that technique is gonna include Gain/Compression/EQ. By making the amp and compressor do some of the work, you can slap "less hard" and get more low end from the technique. It's a feedback loop where the gear settings help the technique come alive, and the technique helps the gear do its job too.
Find the EQ sweet spot that suits the two styles.

Slapping accounts for 1.5% of what I do, so if I can improve it under the rubric of my desired setup, I will, but I won't go to extremes.
Simplest is a stomp pedal with the desired EQ & level for slap.

Two compressors may help. One set more as a limiter for controlling transients.
Then, a second comp set to fatten up your tone and bring up in volume the quieter notes.
 
That’s what I did 30 years ago. Can highly recommend it as it’s served me extremely well.




Find the EQ sweet spot that suits the two styles.


Simplest is a stomp pedal with the desired EQ & level for slap.

Two compressors may help. One set more as a limiter for controlling transients.
Then, a second comp set to fatten up your tone and bring up in volume the quieter notes.
EDIT: a compressor with a BLEND knob for effect vs dry is my preferred comp. Fattens the lows for slap fullness but retains the slap transients to cut through the live mix better.
 
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I play live and regularly flip back and forth between finger style and slap. No adjustments made other than occasionally lowering the passive tone knob (lower treble) for slap (same as Flea does). If anything, slap is louder. After years of doing this, I’ve determined that it’s most practical to just go with EQ suited for slap - scooped Mids, boosted lows, flatish highs. One thing in general, I have my volume louder than most bassists, but I play with a light touch and have the dynamics on tap.
 
I use both fingers and slap extensively live...
I have the opposite issue: my slap is a smidge louder than my fingers. However, I run a compressor as a limiter 100% of the time when gigging and I have no discernable issue