• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

First ampless gig

ClaytonCroft

ClaytonCroft

Sep 2, 2015
171
271
54
Tucson, AZ
www.bradharrisband.com
#1
This venue wants us to stay below 80-85db, so we have been working on an ampless, controllable setup.

We seem pretty ready, with great gear and e-drums, etc, but this will be the first time we won't have amps or monitors on stage, just in-ears. It feels so odd practicing for this, and the IEM's just don't produce the same depth of sound we get when playing back through the PA. I'm relying on my Zoom MS-60B+ to get me through, minimal gear.

I think we sound good, but it's such an oddly disconnected feeling, without that THUMP.

Any experiences to share with doing this? Tips? What are the potential pitfalls?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dbsfgyd1, jimmydean, RattleSnack and 2 others
#4
With a db limit number you / they need to know what scale they are measuring with. A weighted scale rolls off the low end for the measurement, C weighed scale is a full range measurement. So...............if there using A weighted you can bump some low end and still stay under their limit.
Also the distance from the PA the measurement is take is something you need to know

80db is getting low for a live band......depending on music type.

In the big picture a silent stage allows for a very clean balanced mix out front, the sound person id not doing damage control!
 
  • Like
Reactions: erratick, Deleted member 394512 and Wasnex
#6
ClaytonCroft said:
open air restaurant
Click to expand...
Owner of venue might be complying with local sound ordinances.
I just recently had to dig into my local municipalities codes regarding noise pollution, they can be very strict depending on the town/city.
Especially if a local neighbor or bar is calling the sound cops and it isn’t the owners first violation of noise ordinances.

Or they just want a chill environment. 85dB is a decent volume you can still have a conversation over without feelling like you are yelling.

Sounds like a place I’d enjoy, a meal and live music that isn’t blasting at 95-100dB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fuzzy Memory, ClaytonCroft, MaxSpinrun and 1 other person
#7
We are all on in ears at church with the drummer on an acoustic kit inside a fish bowl. What I miss in the feeling of the low end is made up for by the fact that I can hear myself extremely clearly and I can set my own personal mix. It's nice to hear everything amped up, but I was always hearing that through a few pieces of foam shoved in my ears. And I was constantly battling with guitar amps and drums--so it was never a hi-fi experience. With in ears, I can get isolation, a clear sound, set my own mix, turn it as loud or as soft as I want, etc.
The two things that I don't like are communicating with the drummer through a pane of glass and not hearing the ambient noise as easily.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Enrique M, ClaytonCroft and Pings Bass
#9
AK Bass Guy said:
Owner of venue might be complying with local sound ordinances.
I just recently had to dig into my local municipalities codes regarding noise pollution, they can be very strict depending on the town/city.
Especially if a local neighbor or bar is calling the sound cops and it isn’t the owners first violation of noise ordinances.

Or they just want a chill environment. 85dB is a decent volume you can still have a conversation over without feelling like you are yelling.

Sounds like a place I’d enjoy, a meal and live music that isn’t blasting at 95-100dB.
Click to expand...
I once played in a band that got a complaint from Kentucky when we were playing in Ohio.

Nowadays our acoustic trio plays low enough so the staff & patrons can talk without issue. Better for everyone.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: ijump206, WI Short Scaler, AK Bass Guy and 4 others
#10
Depends on the venue. You still get some fell with subs/mains. For me I have been mainly practicing at home with headphones, or through small PA ampless at the house since around 2008, it's really no different than that.
 
#13
ClaytonCroft said:
This venue wants us to stay below 80-85db, so we have been working on an ampless, controllable setup.

We seem pretty ready, with great gear and e-drums, etc, but this will be the first time we won't have amps or monitors on stage, just in-ears. It feels so odd practicing for this, and the IEM's just don't produce the same depth of sound we get when playing back through the PA. I'm relying on my Zoom MS-60B+ to get me through, minimal gear.

I think we sound good, but it's such an oddly disconnected feeling, without that THUMP.

Any experiences to share with doing this? Tips? What are the potential pitfalls?
Click to expand...

It’s an adjustment, I’ve been doing it for a couple of years now. I will say not lugging amps and struggling through stage volume, monitor mix issues far outweighs the lack of oomph on stage, but the oomph is nice.

I usually dial the kick up in my monitor and there’s enough ambient subwoofer thud for me to still feel the groove and lock in with our drummer. We do a lot of interplay on fills and such, and that all still feels good. It’s also super nice being able to tweak other instruments to where I need them, not lose anybody because of where I’m standing, and have all the vocals nice and loud in my mix. Just gotta get used to it being different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ClaytonCroft and ijump206
#14
I think it's three years since I started playing ampless and IEM only. I did bring amp/cab couple of times after I got used to IEMs but found that because my IEM fit and mix are good, I don't hear my amp/cab and it's useless (as it should be).
You just need to get used to it. It's great setup and makes everything unimportant easier and lets you focus on important things (performance).
 
  • Like
Reactions: ClaytonCroft, StyleOverShow and /\/\3phist0
#15
it took me a while to get used to iem's. now I prefer it, if I have a sound person that will leave the gain alone at the board. and they need to set it properly as well, or the sound will just be flat.

Several of the people like to mix in "house" condenser mics so they get room sound/noise and it sounds a bit more natural. they also like to add reverb/delay. I prefer my mix pretty dry, like I'm listening to a cd, with everything pretty balanced and distinct. I feel I can anticipate and play better with a good iem mix than wedges/PA.

Good luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: /\/\3phist0
#16
thebuttkicker.com

ButtKicker LFE

The ButtKicker LFE is our largest transducer and is a great fit for large installs. One ButtKicker LFE provides amazing tactile response on even the largest couches. And the ButtKicker LFE transducer is the best fit for home theater risers and platforms. The ButtKicker LFE haptic transducer...
thebuttkicker.com thebuttkicker.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: /\/\3phist0
#17
As others said it does take a bit of getting used to, but being able to hear what you want to hear, and not having to load in amps and cabs, its a far better experience once you settle in.

If you are sound limited to 85dB you were never going to get a "Thump" whatever gear you used. If you play at louder venues then the PA will give you all the thump you need. Best bottom end I remember was a large house PA with killer subs, that cost more than any bass amp/cab setup I'll every own.

just relax and have an easy gig.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ClaytonCroft, RattleSnack, Jtown690 and 2 others
#18
InhumanResource said:
It’s an adjustment, I’ve been doing it for a couple of years now. I will say not lugging amps and struggling through stage volume, monitor mix issues far outweighs the lack of oomph on stage, but the oomph is nice.

I usually dial the kick up in my monitor and there’s enough ambient subwoofer thud for me to still feel the groove and lock in with our drummer. We do a lot of interplay on fills and such, and that all still feels good. It’s also super nice being able to tweak other instruments to where I need them, not lose anybody because of where I’m standing, and have all the vocals nice and loud in my mix. Just gotta get used to it being different.
Click to expand...
Most of the sound energy is produced by low frequencies. Therefore at 85 DB there will virtually be no thump to feel, unless the subs sit on the same hollow stage as you are standing on.

At 85 DB there is NO NEED for subs, in fact.
Small mains down to 8” produce more than enough DB in the low frequencies to supply a good mix in the room at that volume as FOH.

I rehearse with headphones/ in ears,
Have played “silent stage” many times for Casino/winery/wedding and other events.
It’s weird at first but not ALIEN.

Practice at home, and with the band with your IEM rig whatever that may be , at least till this gig! You’ll find it’s not as foreign as you think.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: IanStephenson, ClaytonCroft and scuzzy
#19
/\/\3phist0 said:
Most of the sound energy is produced by low frequencies. Therefore at 85 DB there will virtually be no thump to feel, unless the subs sit on the same hollow stage as you are standing on.

At 85 DB there is NO NEED for subs, in fact.
Small mains down to 8” produce more than enough DB in the low frequencies to supply a good mix in the room at that volume as FOH.

I rehearse with headphones/ in ears,
Have played “silent stage” many times for Casino/winery/wedding and other events.
It’s weird at first but not ALIEN.

Practice at home, and with the band with your IEM rig whatever that may be , at least till this gig! You’ll find it’s not as foreign as you think.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I’ve been ampless for like 2 years and it’s great. There is absolutely a difference in stage oomph, though. I 100% notice the boom from our subs from stage (and also when it’s not there, which happened this past weekend during a little technical hiccup). Occasionally we have a gig with amplifiers/backline and there is for sure a difference in the experience.

What’s the 85db thing about?
 
#20
InhumanResource said:
Like I said, I’ve been ampless for like 2 years and it’s great. There is absolutely a difference in stage oomph, though. I 100% notice the boom from our subs from stage (and also when it’s not there, which happened this past weekend during a little technical hiccup). Occasionally we have a gig with amplifiers/backline and there is for sure a difference in the experience.

What’s the 85db thing about?
Click to expand...
See original post
ClaytonCroft said:
This venue wants us to stay below 80-85db, so we have been working on an ampless, controllable setup.

We seem pretty ready, with great gear and e-drums, etc, but this will be the first time we won't have amps or monitors on stage, just in-ears. It feels so odd practicing for this, and the IEM's just don't produce the same depth of sound we get when playing back through the PA. I'm relying on my Zoom MS-60B+ to get me through, minimal gear.

I think we sound good, but it's such an oddly disconnected feeling, without that THUMP.

Any experiences to share with doing this? Tips? What are the potential pitfalls?
Click to expand...
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back