Double Bass first DB!

[turf3]

Hi Elias:

First of all at that price you've almost certainly got a plywood bass (which is not a bad thing in itself), which is going to be a lot less sensitive to climate changes with the seasons than a fully solid bass. So rather than jumping directly into an adjustable bridge, you can simply deepen the string notches in the bridge. You'll want to take some material off the top of the bridge afterward so the string grooves are only about 1/2 the diameter of the string deep.

But my guess is that 90% of the strain you're feeling in playing is due to string height too high AT THE NUT. Basically you use a fine file to deepen the notches in the nut till the bottom of the notch is just barely visible above the fingerboard. Or so a very thick piece of paper will just pass under the string next to the nut.

My experience is that string height at the nut is almost always too high on most string instruments, and that this makes much more difference in ease of playing than height at the bridge.

 

[eliascalles]

WOW thank you all SO much for this help!! Sorry I was MIA a few days and didn't' respond earlier, our connection to the internet is absurdly tenuous.

Ok so based on all your advice, I am going to hold off on adding a new bridge with adjusters (or having adjusters added to the existing bridge) until I get the bass setup, new strings and actually see what I need. current string height at the very end of the fingerboard is around 12mm and at the nut I can get a stack of 4 business cards under the E string.

strings- I have not been able to find a set of used spirocore weichs so…. I could get a brand new set though they are quite expensive (US price + 30% for me to get them sent down), or I'm looking at maybe either the daddario helicore which I can get here at a much lower cost, or the la bella tapes. I have tapes on 2 of my bass guitars and I really like them, though I've also tried them on some of my other bass guitars and they just didn't work well with those instruments, so that seems a riskier bet. I've read many opinions of them (mostly not positive) but some people seem to like them and say they are easy on the hands for a beginner. as for the locally available Helicore strings he can get 2 types… Helicore Pizzicato light gauge or Helicore Hybrid Medium gauge. any opinions on which of those 2 would suit a beginner best (or the la bellas)? I worked for many years as a jazz pianist and during that time idolized bill evans, but honestly so much of what got me moving about that trio was Scott Lafaro and his fascinating sense of time. So which strings will make me play like scott LOL (Just kidding).
speaking of hands, even with the bass action as high as it is now, I've been playing every day to get my hands up to speed and damn, this is one physical instrument! I really love it, such a satisfying challenge.

The sound post has not fallen, but it's not at all in line with the bridge (not sure if it's supposed to be). it's a full inch lower than where the bridge feet sit, and seems closer to the treble side of the bridge. I assume the guy that'll do the setup can move it to where it should be, but I"m still not 100% sure how much DB experience this guy actualy has . He's Argentinian (no offense meant to my Argentine brothers, my actual brother in law is one!) but ime my they do tend to say "yes" to any and all questions about their skill set lol. I will read up here about where the sound post should be. I plan to sit with him while he does the work so I can learn what I can learn and maybe assist or at least watch the strings get changed so I can learn about that.

thank you all again, what a wonderful resource you all are!

 

[eh_train]

I can get a stack of 4 business cards under the E string.

You've probably already read that it should be 1 business card. If you have the nut reworked you should find the bass much easier to play, especially in the low registers.

Re the strings, either of the Helicores are good value for the money. If you're going to be bowing some of the time, the Hybrids might be a better choice.

Playing like Scott Lafaro is a two step process: 1) learn to play the tenor sax relatively well; 2) transfer that knowledge to the bass by practicing and gigging every waking moment!

 

[eliascalles]

Playing like Scott Lafaro is a two step process: 1) learn to play the tenor sax relatively well; 2) transfer that knowledge to the bass by practicing and gigging every waking moment!

his lines and his sense of time just move me like no other. I spent half my time in conservatory transcribing his solos (much to the annoyance of my piano instructor lol). such a unique player.

as a beginner do you think the gauge difference between light and medium helicores is important? I ask because I can have the hybrids in medium or the pizz ones in lights. Otherwise I'd order from the USA but it's much more pricey.

thanks!

 

[Wasnex]

WOW thank you all SO much for this help!! Sorry I was MIA a few days and didn't' respond earlier, our connection to the internet is absurdly tenuous.

Ok so based on all your advice, I am going to hold off on adding a new bridge with adjusters (or having adjusters added to the existing bridge) until I get the bass setup, new strings and actually see what I need. current string height at the very end of the fingerboard is around 12mm and at the nut I can get a stack of 4 business cards under the E string.

strings- I have not been able to find a set of used spirocore weichs so…. I could get a brand new set though they are quite expensive (US price + 30% for me to get them sent down), or I'm looking at maybe either the daddario helicore which I can get here at a much lower cost, or the la bella tapes. I have tapes on 2 of my bass guitars and I really like them, though I've also tried them on some of my other bass guitars and they just didn't work well with those instruments, so that seems a riskier bet. I've read many opinions of them (mostly not positive) but some people seem to like them and say they are easy on the hands for a beginner. as for the locally available Helicore strings he can get 2 types… Helicore Pizzicato light gauge or Helicore Hybrid Medium gauge. any opinions on which of those 2 would suit a beginner best (or the la bellas)? I worked for many years as a jazz pianist and during that time idolized bill evans, but honestly so much of what got me moving about that trio was Scott Lafaro and his fascinating sense of time. So which strings will make me play like scott LOL (Just kidding).
speaking of hands, even with the bass action as high as it is now, I've been playing every day to get my hands up to speed and damn, this is one physical instrument! I really love it, such a satisfying challenge.

The sound post has not fallen, but it's not at all in line with the bridge (not sure if it's supposed to be). it's a full inch lower than where the bridge feet sit, and seems closer to the treble side of the bridge. I assume the guy that'll do the setup can move it to where it should be, but I"m still not 100% sure how much DB experience this guy actualy has . He's Argentinian (no offense meant to my Argentine brothers, my actual brother in law is one!) but ime my they do tend to say "yes" to any and all questions about their skill set lol. I will read up here about where the sound post should be. I plan to sit with him while he does the work so I can learn what I can learn and maybe assist or at least watch the strings get changed so I can learn about that.

thank you all again, what a wonderful resource you all are!

These images show the approximate position of the sound post; it goes just under the G-string side foot. The exact placement depend on the bass and how you want it to respond.

If the string height at the nut is 4 business cards, that sounds a bit high. But if you are going to install a different type of strings, I don't recommend doing anything about it just yet.

 

[eliascalles]

But if you are going to install a different type of strings, I don't recommend doing anything about it just yet.

yes my thought was to have the luthier set the action up with the new strings, not before. and thank you for that soundpost info, very helpful!

 

[eh_train]

These images show the approximate position of the sound post; it goes just under the G-string side foot. The exact placement depend on the bass and how you want it to respond.

Hey Wasnex,

I like the first diagram you posted, but am not sold on the second one. I know, I know, ask 5 luthiers a question and you'll get 10 different opinions, but I'm curious as to the source of your diagram #2. Any further info??

 

[eliascalles]

hey side question, is their any practical way to identify the strings that are already on the bass? I've done some TB searching and found some threads, but wasn't able draw any conclusions from it. the tailpiece ends are all black thread with chrome or nickel looking ball ends. the tuner end of the strings are all red thread. I'll attach some pix (just phone snaps, can't do better close up shots if it'd help)

 

[Wasnex]

Hey Wasnex,

I like the first diagram you posted, but am not sold on the second one. I know, I know, ask 5 luthiers a question and you'll get 10 different opinions, but I'm curious as to the source of your diagram #2. Any further info??

If you look closely, both images show adjustment on X and Y axis.

The source of the color image is Sound post - Wikipedia

The black and white image is from The Effect of the Soundpost on Violin Sound

Here is a third image

Source Geigenbau Online: Violin repair graphically described, adjusting the soundpost - Welcome to Geigenbau online, the web-based violin making experience clearly explained:

 

[Wasnex]

Hey Wasnex,

I like the first diagram you posted, but am not sold on the second one. I know, I know, ask 5 luthiers a question and you'll get 10 different opinions, but I'm curious as to the source of your diagram #2. Any further info??

Here's a video that presents a different theory on sound post positioning.

I suggest starting around 2:30

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Elias, some of us call those strings “Chinese cheese-cutters,” more properly known as shipping strings. They exist solely to keep the bridge and soundpost in place while the bass is en route from factory to retailer, and are ideally replaced with decent strings when the bass is set up for sale. Call it more evidence your bass was never set up properly.

 

[eliascalles]

Elias, some of us call those strings “Chinese cheese-cutters,” more properly known as shipping strings. They exist solely to keep the bridge and soundpost in place while the bass is en route from factory to retailer, and are ideally replaced with decent strings when the bass is set up for sale. Call it more evidence your bass was never set up properly.

yeah I kinda figured it was something like that. Like the crappy round wounds that cheap bass guitars ship with.
If I can swing it I'll be ordering a set of spirocores this month, and get the bass setup with those. we'll see if santa has enough money after getting though the kids xmas list lol.

thanks for the info!