Double Bass First EUB build

[josiah goldfish]

Hey there fellow TBers,
So, I've been wanting a DB for ages now but I simply can't afford one. So what am I gonna do? I'm going to build an EUB!
Before I go any further, this isn't going to be one of those 'start today-done next week' builds. This will probably take months. Why? Because I'm 14, have only done a few projects before and the parts will still cost me money (I'm going to buy a neck and fboard, because it's cheaper and because I don't want to be learning on a badly shaped neck).
Anyway, let's start with the wood.
I went to visit David dyke today (luthier supplies, great guy. If you're in the uk, he's great for helping with instrument builds) and came home with these wood, apart from the biggest bit, which is iroko from my grandad's shed
Btw, just realised there's an image size limit from the iPhone app, so I'll post more pics later

 

[josiah goldfish]

i forgot to mention, it's gonna be a 41.5" scale
It's going to be semi-hollow (mostly because of weight) and by semi-hollow i mean it'll have hollow sections. I'll cut out some scaled-down f-holes on the face (big sheets of maple) to make it look more double-bassy too.
What's the best part? So far it's only cost me £30!
Of course that'll all change when I buy the neck, f-board and electronics. Oh, and of course some strings!

My collection of wood

Template

Anyone know what this is? apparently it's very expensive
It's going to be the control cavity cover anyway

bridge top

bridge face: think it's maple

iroko: body wood

maple: face

black walnut: Tail piece. Apparently it was planted by Queen Victoria in kew gardens. cool!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Hi Josiah,

I hope you know what you are doing.

If you really want to make a small corpus acoustic bass (the shape looks like that), you need to know how an acoustic bass is made. You will get a light bass then, but you may need a lot of special tools and the knowledge of a luthier. Think about forces (bridge) and statics, you need a bass bar and a soundpost to distribute forces.
This will get more complicated as you might think now.

A solid body or thick top is easier, but there is still a lot of work (like fingerboard planning).

My advise: before you start building your bass try as much EUBs you can find. Then you know what is important what is made wrong in construction and you can try to avoid it.
Even then you might do some things suboptimal or wrong, but less.

Good luck,

Jörg

 

[josiah goldfish]

Hi Josiah,

I hope you know what you are doing.

If you really want to make a small corpus acoustic bass (the shape looks like that), you need to know how an acoustic bass is made. You will get a light bass then, but you may need a lot of special tools and the knowledge of a luthier. Think about forces (bridge) and statics, you need a bass bar and a soundpost to distribute forces.
This will get more complicated as you might think now.

A solid body or thick top is easier, but there is still a lot of work (like fingerboard planning).

My advise: before you start building your bass try as much EUBs you can find. Then you know what is important what is made wrong in construction and you can try to avoid it.
Even then you might do some things suboptimal or wrong, but less.

Good luck,

Jörg

Thanks, I'm not going to make it completely acoustic, there's going to be a solid strip down the middle for the endpin, solid bits at the top for the neck and body brace, and I won't rout in that deep (the back will still be a solid piece).
Will I still need to plane a pre-made fingerboard? Or can I just sand out buzz spots?
The top will be about 4mm thick, and the bridge will sit on a block to house the piezo.
I'm looking at DB construction and researching what I will and won't need to do.
Many thanks
Joe

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Hi Joe,

over the length of the fingerboard, the fingerboard surface is curved, so that you can look through 1 to 2 mm height in the middle if you put something absolutely straight over the length of the fingerboard. (Sorry, my english knowledge is a bit limited fo knowing the correct term and explain it better.)

Even if you buy a fingerboard this is not preshaped in this direction (only the bridge curvature). Removing buzzes can be a lot of work, when you removed one, you might get a new one at a different position. ANd it is a very delicate operation, I did this with my acoustic bass that has a good fingerboard and even the luthier which is good in these things could not make it better. It took me several weeks of trying and scraping until I got a successful result. And during this work I often thought I would not be able to get the job done ever.
You can try, but if it doesn't work, let a luthier do this job which might cost some money but is worth if the rest of the bass is good. (If not you can live with what you are able to do.)

I would at least put a soundpost in and probably also a little bass bar in (for the bas bar use hide glue, so you are able to remove it easily). There is a lot of pressure from the bridge. I don't know how much (haven't calculated that yet), but expect something around 30-40 Kg on the top at the bridge feet (total amoount, but not neccecarily evenly distributed).
I'm not sure if the 4mm top alone is enough. Depends on a lot of things, but I doubt it. (My massive wood acoustic double bass has about 4mm top plate and of course a bass bar and sound post as well.)

It is not always cheaper to build something yourself. The only good thing is you learn a lot, even if it is only "better buy one than build it yourself".

I once downloaded a plan for the Libellula EUB. Maybe you want to have a look this before you build your own. I don't say this is a good one (never tried or built it), but it was built and seems to work for the owner.
Here is the web address:
http://liutaiomottola.com/instruments/libellula.htm

Good luck,

Jörg

 

[josiah goldfish]

Hi Joe,

over the length of the fingerboard, the fingerboard surface is curved, so that you can look through 1 to 2 mm height in the middle if you put something absolutely straight over the length of the fingerboard. (Sorry, my english knowledge is a bit limited fo knowing the correct term and explain it better.)

Even if you buy a fingerboard this is not preshaped in this direction (only the bridge curvature). Removing buzzes can be a lot of work, when you removed one, you might get a new one at a different position. ANd it is a very delicate operation, I did this with my acoustic bass that has a good fingerboard and even the luthier which is good in these things could not make it better. It took me several weeks of trying and scraping until I got a successful result. And during this work I often thought I would not be able to get the job done ever.
You can try, but if it doesn't work, let a luthier do this job which might cost some money but is worth if the rest of the bass is good. (If not you can live with what you are able to do.)

I would at least put a soundpost in and probably also a little bass bar in (for the bas bar use hide glue, so you are able to remove it easily). There is a lot of pressure from the bridge. I don't know how much (haven't calculated that yet), but expect something around 30-40 Kg on the top at the bridge feet (total amoount, but not neccecarily evenly distributed).
I'm not sure if the 4mm top alone is enough. Depends on a lot of things, but I doubt it. (My massive wood acoustic double bass has about 4mm top plate and of course a bass bar and sound post as well.)

It is not always cheaper to build something yourself. The only good thing is you learn a lot, even if it is only "better buy one than build it yourself".

I once downloaded a plan for the Libellula EUB. Maybe you want to have a look this before you build your own. I don't say this is a good one (never tried or built it), but it was built and seems to work for the owner.
Here is the web address:
http://liutaiomottola.com/instruments/libellula.htm

Good luck,

Jörg

There aren't any double bass luthiers near me (at least I don't think there are, I'll have to research that) so it looks like I'll be doing the board myself. I'll buy a cheap set of strings to check it works and so that I can keep removing them before buying a nice set.
Also, I think I'll be doing a bass bar in that case. I'll cut some f-holes too, and I should be able to set a sound post with my fingers due to how close the f-holes will be (obviouslly not too close or the top will break).
Do you know anywhere I could find a diagram of the inside of a double bass?
Thanks

 

[Ibanez09]

good luck with the build but like others have said ...try some out first to see, steinberger do great cheaper basses and very well made..ive got a ned steinberger black gloss 4 string bass for sale with complete kit for a reasonable good price

 

[josiah goldfish]

good luck with the build but like others have said ...try some out first to see, steinberger do great cheaper basses and very well made..ive got a ned steinberger black gloss 4 string bass for sale with complete kit for a reasonable good price

I should be starting some serious work on Thursday (as in, cutting the body shape)!
ATM what I've done is.
Cut the rough wood for the sides/back piece
Thicknessed one side of it (doing the other side tomorrow)
Bought most of the wood
Made the templates and put in TONNES of research

Looks like now I can start shaping it
Does anyone know how to join a bookmatched top? My idea is to plane both joining edges straight. Squeeze the two pieces together, put scotch tape across the join. Unfold along the tape. Glue. Squeeze back together and put something heavy on top.
Oh, and I'll buy some wood for a bassbar and sound post when I go and buy the binding (if I decide to bind it).
Oh, and the 'unknown' wood has been identified as ziricante. Pretty expensive apparently

 

[powerbass]

Does anyone know how to join a bookmatched top? My idea is to plane both joining edges straight. Squeeze the two pieces together, put scotch tape across the join. Unfold along the tape. Glue. Squeeze back together and put something heavy on top.

That is the basic technique for a bookmatch. You need a sharp hand plane and the edges need to be straight - look up "hand plane shooting" on youtube. The tape is not enough clamping pressure, you need clamps. If the edges aren't flat or straight you will have a glue line and the seam will eventually pull apart.

 

[josiah goldfish]

That is the basic technique for a bookmatch. You need a sharp hand plane and the edges need to be straight - look up "hand plane shooting" on youtube. The tape is not enough clamping pressure, you need clamps. If the edges aren't flat or straight you will have a glue line and the seam will eventually pull apart.

I know about shooting, could I put the edge through a jointer? How do I clamp it? Surely if I clamped from edge to edge it would split in the middle?
Cheers
Joe

 

[powerbass]

You can use a jointer though it depends on the thickness of the pieces to be bookmatched. If they are thinner than 1/4" you will need to use an additional board that will apply pressure against your wood and the jointer fence to keep the bookmatch pieces flat. As for clamping you can gently clamp a piece of across the top (caul), then apply your edge clamps. You don't need a lot of pressure. Acoustic guitar makers use a jig with wedges to clamp soundboards - this is what I mean [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The bass bar runs under the bass bridge foot over the largest part of the top. The soundpost sits about 2 cm below the treble bridge foot. Distance varies. Only to give a short impression.

 

[josiah goldfish]

I had an idea today, will it work?
If I masking tape the face to a piece of straight mdf (with the edge I want straight just sticking out) could I run the mdf along the bandsaw guide-line and cut the edge of the face straight?
Also, I've just been given a long steel poll to use as an endpin. Now all I need is a clamp!

 

[hoytbasses]

Joe:

we've spoken a bit already, but one thing you may not know about me is that I teach guitar building to high school kids. the BIGGEST challenge for younger builders is trying to run when they can barely crawl. In other words, instead of building a simple and functional instrument, they want to try and build an instrument with too many bells and whistles.

my best suggestion to you is to scale down your design: Do a solid body, simply built instrument to build on your skills. Play that for a while before taking on a little more challenging design. Jumping into a semi acoustic instrument as your first build will be a recipe for wrecking a lot of wood.

The pickup systems we previously discussed will work on a solid body or chambered bass as well as a semi acoustic or full acoustic instrument. Less IS more.

Good luck

p.s..... that expensive piece of wood is ziricote I'll bet.

 

[josiah goldfish]

Joe:

we've spoken a bit already, but one thing you may not know about me is that I teach guitar building to high school kids. the BIGGEST challenge for younger builders is trying to run when they can barely crawl. In other words, instead of building a simple and functional instrument, they want to try and build an instrument with too many bells and whistles.

my best suggestion to you is to scale down your design: Do a solid body, simply built instrument to build on your skills. Play that for a while before taking on a little more challenging design. Jumping into a semi acoustic instrument as your first build will be a recipe for wrecking a lot of wood.

The pickup systems we previously discussed will work on a solid body or chambered bass as well as a semi acoustic or full acoustic instrument. Less IS more.

Good luck

p.s..... that expensive piece of wood is ziricote I'll bet.

Yeah, I looked up the wood and it is ziricote, it's really nice, and I'll bet it's beautiful with a bit of varnish.
About experience: I have done quite a few woodwork projects before, and they've all turned out great. I have a lot of experience with a router especially. I'm also not going to attempt building a neck and fboard, as I'd imagine they're the hardest part. I'll also have A LOT of help with this (I know several luthiers, and my dad and grandad are both joiners) so I'm not too worried about messing anything up, as I'll have a helping hand.
And anyway, surely the only way to improve is to push myself?
Thank you for your input though.
Joe

 

[josiah goldfish]

You know what? I've had so many discouraging PMs, I'm just going to build this and prove them wrong. I've seen the other TB builds and they've had nothing but encouragement, why am I the only one who's getting discouragement?
Btw, hoytt, I'm not talking about you here, you were just offering advice, which I'm grateful for.
Well, I'll cut out the body next week and start cutting the bridge. I started out this project really excited, now I just wanna get it finished

 

[hoytbasses]

I don't think people are specifically trying to be negative, it's more a matter of making sure you know all of the various factors involved in building something this complicated. Some folks, (probably myself included are sometimes not tactful enough.


It does seem that you have a good pedigree in woodworking. I would encourage you to go for it... but think through every step, practice on scrap before you take on the real thing, and I stand by my recommendation that you simplify your design.

kfh

 

[josiah goldfish]

Ok Hoyt, that would make sense.
What would you say is difficult about my design? Is it the fact it's semi-acoustic?
Btw, I just found an active preamp on the bay. It's similar to an acoustic guitar one, one volume, 3 sliders: bass middle treble. Runs off a 9v battery. Should work right? It's only £5 so I might just buy it to give it a shot

 

[DoubleMIDI]

A guitar preap (assuming it is for magnetic pickups) does not work well with piezos. YOu need a high impedance J-FET or FET-OpAmp in the first stage.
If it's made for piezos and has a J-FET it might work. But every piezo has a different impedance, so you might need to change a resistor.

 

[josiah goldfish]

A guitar preap (assuming it is for magnetic pickups) does not work well with piezos. YOu need a high impedance J-FET or FET-OpAmp in the first stage.
If it's made for piezos and has a J-FET it might work. But every piezo has a different impedance, so you might need to change a resistor.

It's a piezo preamp, doesn't mention anything about a jfet, (it's a 'reduced to clear' thing), should have mentioned that. However I think I can see one in the pic. Should either be a little-black-chip-with-loads-of-legs or half-a-cylinder-with-three-legs right?
Could I just match the piezo to the preamp seeing as they're so cheap?