Double Bass Fishman Vs. Realist

[mattfong]

Hello,

I was looking for some advice on pickup selection. I have an Eastman 305 carved bass, and I play through an Eden CXC210 combo. I do not, however, own a pickup.

For a gig I tried out the Fishman BP-100 that had come on my rental bass, before I returned it and just after I had bought the Eastman, and got a fantastic sound through the Eden (greatest amps ever, by the way). my teacher recommended I try out a Realist though, so I was curious what you guys could tell me about the difference in how they sound. I'm going to see if I can try them both out soon, but until then, any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Ric Vice]

Hello,

I was looking for some advice on pickup selection. I have an Eastman 305 carved bass, and I play through an Eden CXC210 combo. I do not, however, own a pickup.

For a gig I tried out the Fishman BP-100 that had come on my rental bass, before I returned it and just after I had bought the Eastman, and got a fantastic sound through the Eden (greatest amps ever, by the way). my teacher recommended I try out a Realist though, so I was curious what you guys could tell me about the difference in how they sound. I'm going to see if I can try them both out soon, but until then, any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Matt,
I've owned both pickups and lived with each for a long while in the process. The Fishman Full Circle and Realist both sound better than BP-100 IMHO. I think that using brass clamps to hold the peizo elements in place "mutes the bridge" and gives you a very nasal and plinched sound, loud mind you but not very pleasing to my ears.
Vicktor Krauss uses one very sucessfully with Lyle Lovett and it sounds great however.

Ric

 

[neal davis]

Matt I've used the pickups that you mentioned and they all have quite a different sound, but the pickup that sounds great on my bass or on your teachers bass may not sound good on yours, try going to Long and Mcquade in toronto as you can rent pickups there, try one for a month, if you don't like it try a different one. Also try an underwood, they are pretty much the standard for alot of bassist in town, not the ultrabest sounding but work pretty good for most peoples basses. I also see you teach at the arts, did you use to study with Steve Gotlieb? Also tell Mike Bowell the guitarist that I say hello.

 

[BassBus]

I'd go along with everything said so far. I started with the BP100. It was OK but hopeless for bowing, very rasppy. The Realist was good while it worked but it gave up the ghost within a year and I was told by someone in the know that they don't last forever. Some of the guys on TB have been using them for a long time though so maybe mine was just a dud. It happens. I now use the Shadow SH950, which is their equivalent of the Underwood. It is weged between the wings of the bridge so you don't have to move the bridge at all. I like the sound and I don't use a pre-amp. Straight into my AI Contra it sounds fine.

 

[all_grown_up]

I'd go along with everything said so far. I started with the BP100. It was OK but hopeless for bowing, very rasppy. The Realist was good while it worked but it gave up the ghost within a year and I was told by someone in the know that they don't last forever. Some of the guys on TB have been using them for a long time though so maybe mine was just a dud. It happens. I now use the Shadow SH950, which is their equivalent of the Underwood. It is weged between the wings of the bridge so you don't have to move the bridge at all. I like the sound and I don't use a pre-amp. Straight into my AI Contra it sounds fine.

You are going to have to experiment. There is no clear choice. It is very bass specific. I have a realist on one bass and it sounds great. When I bought a new bass, I tried it with the realist and it did not sound good at all. I have a Fishman Full Circle on the new bass. Most people seem to think that the FC is better than the BP-100.

 

[mattfong]

Thanks guys, I'll check out Long & McQuade or Cosmo for a Realist and the Underwood one too. Isn't the Full Circle the one that replaces my bridge adjuster? It'd be kinda hard to rent one of those haha...

Neal: I just started there. I'm friends with Fraser Gottlieb, who also teaches there. Are they related?

EDIT: And I think I'm going to try the BP-100 again anyways, as I got a good sound for pizz before but didn't try arco. I'll compare them all.

 

[neal davis]

matt frasier and steve aren't related, steve was teaching there for a couple of years and is on tour is Asia right now, I think he will be back in May or something, so I guess you will meet him then, as for pickups you may also want to try a schertler dynb pickup, they are expensive but you can pick a used one up alot cheaper than new, I have a couple if you want to try one out.

 

[mattfong]

Neal, how much would I be looking at (used, of course)? I'll be at College and Ossington on Sunday for my bass lesson, we could maybe meet up?

 

[AMJBASS]

I have gone through pretty well everything on the market, and you need to match the pickup to the bass. However, more importantly you need to get the best acoustic sound out of your instrument as a pickup is only going to amplify that. Regarding pickups though, the BP-100 is BRUTAL for arco work. It is too close to the strings to get a natural sound with the bow I think. The Realist is a really nice pickup if you aren't cranking up too loud. The Dyn-B pickup is essentially like putting a mic right onto the bass. It is a very natural sound and you can change the tone by moving the transducer around to different spots. You will need an amp that has an XLR mic input, or a cable that will go from XLR to 1/4". I would like to grab another one of these pickups some time soon. VERY expensive though.

 

[gnergaard]

I used to use the Fishman BP100 it came installed on my bass when I purchased it. +1 to all comments made so far. I'd add that if you are looking for an "outrageous" amplified sound- something really mean and growly, loud, like a bigger, badder fretless slab, then the BP 100 can do wonders. I don't expect that it has what anyone would call a 'natural' sound tho'- I used LOTS of EQ with the BP100. I still like it and I'd use it again for an electric jazz or live hip-hop kind of thing if that came up.
Next I bought a Gage Realist. Much darker, useful with a bow, and good at low volumes. After living with it for a few years I realized that I was using too much EQ to eliminate feedback and not getting the sound that I wanted in most amplified situations.
About a year ago I purchased and installed the Fishman Full Circle and though it doesn't sound perfect I'd say that it is somewhere inbetween the two in terms of color and that it's much better than either one in loud situations. OK for Arco and it responds well to whatever EQ you decide to use. I'm able to run my amp flat in most situations and I think that's a sign that the pickup has a reasonably 'natural' sound inherent to it that neither the Realist (I always used to cut lows and boost highs) nor the BP 100 (I always boosted lows and cut highs significantly) have had on my bass.
If there's really a place in Ontario that you can rent pick-ups for a month then by all means take advantage of it! I wish there was a similar opportunity in Chicago. I think that the Full Circle installation is nothing to be afraid of as long as your bass has adjusters. I'm sure if you post a request for advice or search for installation tips that you could easily do this (and undo this) yourself.
Good luck!

 

[wpatton11]

I've used both, sometimes simultaneously... the Fishman gave me that string definition, but not very much body - the Realist gave me the body, and then some. If I had to use just one, I'd go for the Realist, for the sound I'm looking for - thru a tube pre to shape out some of the woof-ier frequencies. Probably beyond your original question, but a Realist in combination with a tiny clip on condensor mic can give you a very nice natural sound.
good luck - it's a lifetime endeavor, gettin' that sound...

 

[BassBus]

I have gone through pretty well everything on the market, and you need to match the pickup to the bass. However, more importantly you need to get the best acoustic sound out of your instrument as a pickup is only going to amplify that. Regarding pickups though, the BP-100 is BRUTAL for arco work.

Something I had never thought about before. Yeh, the Fishman is right next to the strings so very little wood for the sound to travel through. Whereas something like the Realist or Underwood pups have a bit more wood to go through which will colour the sound when amplified.

I used to use the Fishman BP100 it came installed on my bass when I purchased it. +1 to all comments made so far. I'd add that if you are looking for an "outrageous" amplified sound- something really mean and growly, loud, like a bigger, badder fretless slab, then the BP 100 can do wonders. I don't expect that it has what anyone would call a 'natural' sound tho'- I used LOTS of EQ with the BP100. I still like it and I'd use it again for an electric jazz or live hip-hop kind of thing if that came up.
I'm able to run my amp flat in most situations and I think that's a sign that the pickup has a reasonably 'natural' sound inherent to it that neither the Realist (I always used to cut lows and boost highs) nor the BP 100 (I always boosted lows and cut highs significantly) have had on my bass.

EQ was quite important with the BP100 when I used it on my first DB. Too much top end. When I put it on my current DB when the Realist packed up it seemed to work fine with out much EQing. With my current Shadow pup I sweep the mids off completely, rest is flat.

 

[bassssab]

The Barcus Berry B3150, which comes with a preamp, has a very even sound. Set-up is as follows: no adhesive is necessary, clamps to the bridge, plugs into the preamp, impedence is matched with the preamp, adjust the equalization and volume on the preamp and your amplifier. When a Gallien-Krueger BP150E-III/112 is used, the sound is smoking. With the GK's onboard equalization, the resultant sound for pizzacato and arco is very true to the sound of an unamplified double bass.

 

[Barcza]

I used BP-100 for 10 years. Now I use the Fishman Full Circle. The Full Circle sounds more natural than BP-100, but if you like the bp-100 you will like FC also. For my taste the FC is the best, the bp-100 sounds too "clear" the realistic is too "dark" for me, the FC is beetwen of them. ( sorry for my English )

 

[mattfong]

I've just rented a Realist, we'll see how that works out. I have to get Heinl's to install it though, I'm too scared to try myself haha. Apparently one time my teacher installed his, but his soundpost was a little short and it fell out when he took some of the tension off the bridge. Bad news.

 

[edfriedland]

I've used all three pickups mentioned. The BP100, probably not the best choice now. When it first came out in 1979, it was the best thing available. A real step forward, however you really need to use a buffer preamp with it or it sounds nasal and harsh. With the preamp, you can get a good sound, but the clamps do mute the bridge and it is a bit rough for bowing.

The Full Circle is great, a huge improvement, and it works on more amps without a preamp, though it depends. I find it to be very articulate, very growly, and feedback resistent. I've used it for several years now.

I just put on a Realist in addition to the FC, and I have to say it's excellent. It gives me more of a body sound, more low mids. It's working great for some of the non-straight ahead jazz work I do on upright (songwriters, acousti-pop...whatever) as it has great punch and roundness to the notes. I can also articulate fast stuff for solos too, but the low end is real nice. I is a little more prone to feedback at high volume, but another factor that contributes to feedback is the phase. On my Fishman Platinum preamp, there is a phase switch. I find that I can eliminate a lot of feedback by finding the right position for that switch. Also, on my PJB Flightcase, I can control feedback by using the input sensitivity switch. The bass will start to feedback immediately if I use the "active"position, but the "passive" position works fine (although you do lose some gain). On this rig, I find I don't need to use the preamp.

Of course, trying them on your bass is the best idea. I avoided buying a Realist for years because of my experiences with a rental bass... I hated the sound, and blamed the pickup. It sounds great on my bass!

 

[Wilbyman]

+1 to Ed, the Realist is a great pickup and sounds the most "mic-like" of any of the pickups I've tried. I personally couldn't get the Full Circle to work well on my bass but the Realist is dynamite. I use an Underwood for when I want a real cutting jazz sound but for a real usable, natural bass sound the Realist is tops.

W

 

[Rob Hunter]

I've been thinking about checking out the Realist (since it's been wonderful on my Eminence). But I've read somewhere here that it puts tiny holes in the top of the bass (under the E bridge foot). Is this true?

Yes, I should look under my Eminence's bridge foot, but I'm just too damn lazy....

 

[christ andronis]

I've been thinking about checking out the Realist (since it's been wonderful on my Eminence). But I've read somewhere here that it puts tiny holes in the top of the bass (under the E bridge foot). Is this true?

Yes, I should look under my Eminence's bridge foot, but I'm just too damn lazy....

I had one on my carved Chrissy for about 5 years until recently switching to the Full Circle. The Realist left no marks. I prefer the Full Circle cause i think it has a much more natural sound even when cranked a little bit. The Realist used to get "honky" (pretty scientific, huh?) when pushed. They both pretty much suck for recording but I don't understand why someone would use one for that anyway unless that's the sound they were going for.

 

[Mark Perna]

I've tried the Realist on all of my basses (8 so far although I only have 3 currently that get used-one is out for repair, 2 are in storage and 2 were sold) and have always ended up taking it off. The acoustic sound of the bass changes for the worse with the transducer under the bridge. It seems to interfere with bridge transmitting vibration into the body. The acoustic sound of the bass loses depth and I find it irritatingly noticeable and consistent from bass to bass. The depth is back as soon as I take the stupid thing off. I have a short memory, though, so every couple of years, I try it again always with the same results. It doesn't matter if I install or have it professionally installed. I bought a bass from David Gage himself with it installed by one of his guys and found the same thing.

I haven't tried a Full Circle because all of my basses have Kolstein style thick wooden adjusters in the bridge and I'd have to get a new bridge to use the FC.

The BP-100 works fantastically well on 3 of my basses, ok on the 4th and not at all on the other 4. I've never noticed the bridge clips muting the bridge. If it does, it is much less noticeable than the problem I have with the Realist. On the basses it works on, the sound is glorious--fat, deep and articulate. On the basses it doesn't work on, it sounds like someone stepped on a cat's tale--all high end with no lows. I've spent hours adjusting the fit (sanding the bridge where the tranducers go, adjusting the pressure of the clips etc.) with no improvement and I have no idea why I get so disparate a result from bass to bass.

On the basses, the BP-100 doesn't work, I've used an Underwood with middling but acceptable results. I'm seriously thinking about replacing the bridge on one of these basses so I can try the FC.

As far as pre-amps go, I have to use one with BP-100 and the Underwood. I A-B'd the The Realist and it definitely sounded better with one but it wasn't bad without one.

mark