Double Bass Five short recording clips comparing microphones

[rickwolff]

I've been looking to get the best possible recorded sound with the equipment I have. The best recorded sound doesn't necessarily use the same equipment as the best live sound.

I know which one I like best.

Your thoughts?


Additional info:

One clip is stereo, the other 3 are mono

2 clips are mic direct to recorder

2 clips are DI

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I like mid side mp3 the best, at least for solo bass. In a mix, who knows! Oh, and I'm only seeing four clips.

 

[rickwolff]

Eric,

Thanks for your reply. I too prefer the mid-side hands down. To me it sounds like I'm right there in the room. The others sound 'flat' by comparison.

Re: in a mix, I will get a chance to try it this Sunday with a guitarist and vocalist. I'm really looking forward to it. Since I work almost exclusively with intimate, drummerless trios I don't think 'what it sounds like in the mix is going to be a problem for me.

My Search for the 'Holy Grail' continues. Here is a clip I got from a Don Kaspar posting (from back in 2016). To me, this is my 'perfect' bass sound. It probably wouldn't translate to a big band but that's something I never have to worry about.

 

[rickwolff]

Oh, and I'm only seeing four clips.

Yeah, math was never my strong suit.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Here is a clip I got from a Don Kaspar posting (from back in 2016). To me, this is my 'perfect' bass sound. It probably wouldn't translate to a big band but that's something I never have to worry about.

Great sound there, and beautiful recording by my old friends Alan Pasqua and Peter Erskine.

 

[rickwolff]

I got a pm from a TB friend whose recorded sound is among the best out there (thanks, MSW). Another vote for the mid-side mic. I think I'm onto something.

 

[Jim Dedrick]

Eric,

Thanks for your reply. I too prefer the mid-side hands down. To me it sounds like I'm right there in the room. The others sound 'flat' by comparison.

Re: in a mix, I will get a chance to try it this Sunday with a guitarist and vocalist. I'm really looking forward to it. Since I work almost exclusively with intimate, drummerless trios I don't think 'what it sounds like in the mix is going to be a problem for me.

My Search for the 'Holy Grail' continues. Here is a clip I got from a Don Kaspar posting (from back in 2016). To me, this is my 'perfect' bass sound. It probably wouldn't translate to a big band but that's something I never have to worry about.

This recording is beautiful. Love the tone and tasteful playing.

 

[Jared Houseman]

I prefer the ms recording. All the other recordings seem lacking in comparison

 

[rickwolff]

And..........it's unanimous. I can't wait to do some trio recordings using the m-s mic.

 

[Jared Houseman]

What two mics are you using for the ms?

 

[rickwolff]

What two mics are you using for the ms?

Ah hah. It is the mid-side capsule included with the Zoom Q8. It looks like this:

I never bothered to learn what the purpose of the mid-side mic was and always used the X/Y capsule UNTIL I tipped the recorder over one day and broke half of the X/Y capsule. So I figured my only option was to use the mid-side mic. Turns out it gives me the best recorded sound of my bass. To me, when I listen to the recording it sounds like I'm right there in the room. The mono mics all sound 'flat' by comparison.

 

[Jared Houseman]

Ah hah. It is the mid-side capsule included with the Zoom Q8. It looks like this: View attachment 4208553

I never bothered to learn what the purpose of the mid-side mic was and always used the X/Y capsule UNTIL I tipped the recorder over one day and broke half of the X/Y capsule. So I figured my only option was to use the mid-side mic. Turns out it gives me the best recorded sound of my bass. To me, when I listen to the recording it sounds like I'm right there in the room. The mono mics all sound 'flat' by comparison.

That sounds way better than I would expect it to. Those zoom recorders have always caught my interest, I'll have to check it out

 

[rickwolff]

I have a Zoom Q8 video recorder (onboard X/Y mic - or swap out for the mid-side + 2 combo 1/4 inch/XLR inputs) and the H6 - which has the onboard stereo mic and 4 addl inputs.

Here's a recording done with the Q8: City Lights Jazz with MEGHAN CAUSEY Videos | ReverbNation

The audio with the Zoom recorders is quite good in my opinion, but the video is less than stellar. I plan to get a new video recorder (a Canon VIXIA HF R800) and use the 6 total channels of the Zoom H6 for the audio. I will put the recorder right in front of my bass and capture the acoustic sound of the bass with the mid-side mic.

For comparison, here is a professional video shot in the same location. Notice how much brighter and crisper the video is than that from the Zoom: (Granted, there were other differences too, such as professional lights and a videographer who know what he was doing) City Lights Jazz with MEGHAN CAUSEY Videos | ReverbNation


An interesting article regarding mid-side recording: Mid/Side (MS) Mic Recording Basics | Universal Audio


Listen to the three clips of a drum set at the end of the article above. First clip is mid mic only, second clip is side mics only, there clip combines mid and side. I think you'll be amazed.

 

[lrhbass]

Another vote for the mid-side.....

 

[Ric Vice]

If you have a drummer less trio, all the low end frequency spectrum that is used to record a drum set, opens up for the Double Bass to inhabit.
This lets you use a different type of microphone for recording the instrument. A large diaphragm (i.e. one of the Neuman’s) condenser captures all the
nuance and dynamic range, so the bass sound is exquisite. Most of the time it’s not practical to record that way so a Schoeps CMC6/MK41 is one of the go to
Microphones for recording bass with drums, unless the bass is totally isolated in a booth. I feel the Remic DB5400 (Red) is an excellent mic for recording live
with a drummer less band. It gets a beautiful sound. Just my take. Remic’s aren’t cheap

 

[AGCurry]

For the AppleHeads, Shure makes the MV88, which has a mid-side pattern.

The earliest mid-side configurations used a figure-of-eight pattern ribbon mic (think RCA 44 or 77) with a cardioid pattern mic for the "mid." All three resulting tracks can be summed to a monaural track with no loss.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

For the AppleHeads, Shure makes the MV88, which has a mid-side pattern.

The earliest mid-side configurations used a figure-of-eight pattern ribbon mic (think RCA 44 or 77) with a cardioid pattern mic for the "mid." All three resulting tracks can be summed to a monaural track with no loss.

???
There are two tracks, fig. of eight and cardioid. The left and right channel are made by adding or subtracting the fig. of eight from the cardioid. That way the fig. of eight gets completely removed when both channels get mixed to a mono signal.

Is that a new counting disability virus that gets spread in the US now? Does it distribute online over the world? Who constructed it and who set that free?

 

[rickwolff]

???
There are two tracks, fig. of eight and cardioid. The left and right channel are made by adding or subtracting the fig. of eight from the cardioid. That way the fig. of eight gets completely removed when both channels get mixed to a mono signal.

Is that a new counting disability virus that gets spread in the US now? Does it distribute online over the world? Who constructed it and who set that free?

Isn't that the Nordrhein-Westfalen virus?

 

[AGCurry]

???
There are two tracks, fig. of eight and cardioid. The left and right channel are made by adding or subtracting the fig. of eight from the cardioid. That way the fig. of eight gets completely removed when both channels get mixed to a mono signal.

Is that a new counting disability virus that gets spread in the US now? Does it distribute online over the world? Who constructed it and who set that free?

The signal from the bidirectional mic is directed to two tracks, and polarity is reversed on one of those.

My disability is not an inability to count, but rather an inability to think things through completely before expressing myself... and I don't think it's caused by a virus.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The signal from the bidirectional mic is directed to two tracks, and polarity is reversed on one of those.

My disability is not an inability to count, but rather an inability to think things through completely before expressing myself... and I don't think it's caused by a virus.

I agree that it might be easier to mix down to L/R with three tracks, but that‘s rather old school when mixers only had phase inversion on the inputs.
No problem if you have a spare channel, but if not (additional close direct mics for larger mixed ensembles) the third recording track is not really needed.
But maybe I’m thinking too much in digital recording now.

Sorry that you didn‘t appreciate my joke regarding the „one too less“ virus, but it happened (from my perspective) two times (with Rick and you) in a rather short time period.