Flats guidance for two diferrent needs

[Sir Toby]

TapeWound Club~Anyone?

Ha ha ha!! Over 1500 posts in that thread. Rabbit hole indeed

 

[HaphAsSard]

Ha ha ha!! Over 1500 posts in that thread. Rabbit hole indeed

Best used for reference, as opposed to thorough perusal. Use the search function (with the "Search this thread only" box flagged) for the keywords that most interest you, such as, say, "slap", then identify one or two specific products, then re-search for those.

 

[Sir Toby]

To be fair, I’ve got an entire kitchen sized plastic trash bag filled with strings; at least a dozen sets. If one could have, say a half dozen identical instruments- which is impossible-and a half dozen identical amp/cable/cabinet setups, it would still be somewhat difficult to find the best string of the six you’re looking at. I have had two sets of the same string sound different. Be aware also that Dunlop is, or was at one point actually making Sadowsky strings (to Roger’s specifications) and that there are very limited sources of wire. You could buy six sets of strings, and they could ALL be wrapped around the same core. This is a tedious process that is HIGHLY subjective. You want to think that a $90 set of strings is better than a $30 set of strings, and the metrics of what is “better” is thrown out the window. One of the strings the OP mentions- the Tomastiks were the worst sounding strings I ever fooled with, and it wasn’t even close. No one string sounded like the other, and I paid over twice as much for them as I did for any other string I auditioned. I wound up with five different string manufacturers on six basses, and I’m sure there is room for improvement, but the lack of consistency in the process of selecting the “perfect” string a perpetual Sisyphean process.

Wise words, Gorilla! / Jesse Ventura

You are 100% correct though. But each set and brand have a sort of general dna that makes discussing them possible and super fun even if the only way to know is to listen for yourself. But the chance of buying a faulty set is a reality for sure. And just when you think you have found the holy Gmail they rebrand, change manufacturer or or materials...

 

[Sir Toby]

Best used for reference, as opposed to thorough perusal. Use the search function (with the "Search this thread only" box flagged) for the keywords that most interest you, such as, say, "slap", then identify one or two specific products, then re-search for those.

Thanks Hap! I didn't know that, so thank you. Will take a lot less scrolling from now on.

 

[Phaidrus]

Based on my experience, I wouldn't describe the 9050L as being "quite loose/flexible". Not overly stiff, mind you, but nothing like TIJFs. To me, they feel like a typical 45-105 set of hex-core rounds in terms of stiffness.

Admittedly I find it surprising that with time high string tension is less of an issue or not at all. Nowadays a 760FS or DR Legend set is just normal to me and then a bit higher tension is a bit more than normal and anything less is sort of low tension. I don't think I could play a single bar with TIJF...

In this context I would compare the the 9050M to the 760FS or DR Legend (these two appear to me to be of more or less equivalent tension and feel) as follows: E and A of the 9050M have less tension than E and A from the other two sets and D and G of the 9050M have about the same tension as the D and G of the 760FS and DR Legend. Given that all but the E string of the Fender are of considerably thicker gauge, I'd call the 9050 lower than typical tension - like Dunlop flats territory. Also I found all four strings of the 9050M set to be quite more flexible than the 760FS, DR Legend, Pyramid. So again, given their thicker gauge, definitely more flexible than a typical set of flats.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

As far as the semi hollow bass is concerned, I would definitely recommend tape wounds- the GHS Boomers come to mind. The problem I’ve had with the tape wound strings is that they never stay in tune. I have a Ken Smith fretless that I picked up via Reverb that came with the Boomers, and they sounded great- they refused to stay in tune, though. When I replaced them, I chose the Sadowsky Blue flats, and they sound great. What was unsettling was- when I removed the old Boomers, I found the tape had broken in several places- completely imperceptible until I took the strings off- picture a sleeve that pulled off like a tube. If you are this far in your search, perhaps a YouTube video of Curt Mangan actually making strings would help you understand the process. If you go to YouTube and type -“Curt Mangan “ it comes right at the top of available videos. Quite interesting. When I spoke to Curt, he told me that Roger had approached him to supply him with strings, and if memory serves me, I think Curt’s operation was too small to accomplish this. I don’t know the availability of his strings at the moment- supply chain issues persist- I had to wait six months to get his five string flats- they were worth it, but this serves to further impress the fact that there are, apparently a very limited number of wire sources, only one or two, perhaps here in the US. The process of going ingot to wire is one of drawing the wire from rod, and is apparently both specialized and expensive.

 

[michael_t]

As far as the semi hollow bass is concerned, I would definitely recommend tape wounds- the GHS Boomers come to mind.

GHS Boomers are nickel-plated steel roundwound, not tapewound.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

GHS Boomers are nickel-plated steel roundwound, not tapewound.

Sorry- which are the tape wound? Perhaps they were LaBella Deeps. I’ve got six instruments, soon to be seven, and my rembery ain’t what it used to be.

 

[michael_t]

Sorry- which are the tape wound? Perhaps they were LaBella Deeps. I’ve got six instruments, soon to be seven, and my rembery ain’t what it used to be.

Are you talking about black nylons?

La Bella Black Nylon = Purple silk with brass ball ends.
D'Addario Black Nylon = Blue silk with color-coded ball ends (gold-red-black-green).
GHS Tapewounds = Red silk with brass ball ends.
Rotosound Tru Bass 88 (black nylon) = Yellow/gold silk with color-coded ball ends (red-blue-white-red).

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

I have long since discarded the old strings, but pulled up the original shot of the bass from Reverb- red silk with brass ball ends- they were GHS, I assume. I don’t think they were flats; I recall the E string winding actually broke between the nut and first fret, leaving a nasty burr that prompted the string change. I’d never seen THAT before. The round winding was free-wheeling.

 

[michael_t]

I have long since discarded the old strings, but pulled up the original shot of the bass from Reverb- red silk with brass ball ends- they were GHS, I assume...

NPS roundwound with red silk = GHS Boomers.

Black Nylon Tapewound with red silk = GHS Taperwounds. (black nylon over flatwound)

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

NPS roundwound with red silk = GHS Boomers.

Black Nylon Tapewound with red silk = GHS Taperwounds. (black nylon over flatwound)

Ahhh- that makes sense- they were the Taperwounds, just not flats. I recall now- it’s been two years + and I remember wanting to change to flats to preserve the ebony fretboard. I also have a Gould five string that was supplied with taped rounds, and they sounded great, but I wanted flats, and went to Mangan flats. It seems to me that the tape cover translates to a warmer sound when covering rounds- very close to flats.

 

[Sir Toby]

Admittedly I find it surprising that with time high string tension is less of an issue or not at all. Nowadays a 760FS or DR Legend set is just normal to me and then a bit higher tension is a bit more than normal and anything less is sort of low tension. I don't think I could play a single bar with TIJF...

In this context I would compare the the 9050M to the 760FS or DR Legend (these two appear to me to be of more or less equivalent tension and feel) as follows: E and A of the 9050M have less tension than E and A from the other two sets and D and G of the 9050M have about the same tension as the D and G of the 760FS and DR Legend. Given that all but the E string of the Fender are of considerably thicker gauge, I'd call the 9050 lower than typical tension - like Dunlop flats territory. Also I found all four strings of the 9050M set to be quite more flexible than the 760FS, DR Legend, Pyramid. So again, given their thicker gauge, definitely more flexible than a typical set of flats.

Tension and gauges are a jungle, for sure! I am choosing between the 9050l and 9050 ml. But for slap as well as finger style and pick what would be your recommendation? I figured the L would be better but if they feel as loose as the TI's I may have to change to ML. Luckily they aren't as expensive as many other flats.

 

[michael_t]

Wow! I hadn't even considered tapewounds. Mind blown!! A completely new rabbit hole to dive down and get lost in. I have some reading to do and some sound clips to browse!

Something you should know before going too deep into the tapewound rabbit hole...

Most tapewounds are roundwound under the nylon cover. So 50-105 in tapewound would feel more like 40-95 in roundwound in terms of tension and stiffness as the outer nylon cover contributes very little to stiffness or overall tension. If TI Jazz Flats are too loose and floppy for you, you may not like 50-105 in tapewound. Some companies do offer bigger gauges in tapes, such as 60-115, but that would probably require modification to the nut slots.

 

[Phaidrus]

Tension and gauges are a jungle, for sure! I am choosing between the 9050l and 9050 ml. But for slap as well as finger style and pick what would be your recommendation? I figured the L would be better but if they feel as loose as the TI's I may have to change to ML. Luckily they aren't as expensive as many other flats.

I suppose the 9050L are more or less like a standard 45-105 set of rounds in terms of tension, so perhaps it would be the go to set for slapping. Although light tension, I don't think they're as loose as TIs. Perhaps @michael_t could chime in with his advice.

 

[michael_t]

I suppose the 9050L are more or less like a standard 45-105 set of rounds in terms of tension, so perhaps it would be the go to set for slapping. Although light tension, I don't think they're as loose as TIs. Perhaps @michael_t could chime in with his advice.

I switched back and forth between the 9050L and GHS Pressurewound ML7200 (44-102) a few times on my Jazz bass with very little truss rod tweak. The ML7200 is 169.3 lbs. in total tension, so I would guesstimate the actual tension on the 9050L to be fairly close to that. That's almost 30 lbs. more than the TIJF, not to mention the fact 9050 flats are hex core, which translates to stiffer feel than the TIJF. My suggestion to @Sir Toby would be to start with the 9050L (45-100).

 

[Sir Toby]

Something you should know before going too deep into the tapewound rabbit hole...

Most tapewounds are roundwound under the nylon cover. So 50-105 in tapewound would feel more like 40-95 in roundwound in terms of tension and stiffness as the outer nylon cover contributes very little to stiffness or overall tension. If TI Jazz Flats are too loose and floppy for you, you may not like 50-105 in tapewound. Some companies do offer bigger gauges in tapes, such as 60-115, but that would probably require modification to the nut slots.

Aha!! Very good advice! I don't want to have to start filing the nut so maybe I will have to give it some more thought

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Aha!! Very good advice! I don't want to have to start filing the nut so maybe I will have to give it some more thought

Please don’t file the nut.

 

[Sir Toby]

Thank you to everyone for all the wise input and sharing of experience! I will go for the 9050l first. I do appreciate the reminder that my opinion of a loose feeling string may be perfect for someone else.

 

[Sir Toby]

Please don’t file the nut.

Ha ha ha! I promise.