Flats with the playability of rounds?

[JeezyMcNuggles]

So I'm considering putting flats on my precision because I love the smooth and thumpy sound, but I'm hesitant.

I've only ever tried flats once (they came installed on the p when I bought it used) and they were INCREDIBLY difficult to play. They felt so stiff that I couldn't get through a single song without my fretting hand aching and cramping up. I believe they were some kind of Fender flats.

Now, I wonder: is that just how flats are? Or are there models out there that are more comparable to rounds in terms of comfort? I typically play D'addario nickel wound rounds, 45 - 100 or 105, with no issue.

I'd really appreciate suggestions on flats that are in a similar ball park (if they exist) from you guys.

Optima rb flatwounds are astonishingly playable. Not sticky like most other flats, and fairly pliable. Not floppy though.

 

[KoalaOnBass]

Lots of interesting options, thanks for chiming in! I'm intrigued by the Labellas, but they're sadly not available at any of my local online music stores at the moment...so I'm leaning towards the TI's

 

[Jon Moody]

I read this and thought of an off-topic question - do flats generally cost more because they are more expensive to make, or is it more of a scalability issue? Just curious - thanks Jon!

They're more expensive to make, due to more steps involved in making them. Here's a very general comparison.

With a roundwound string, a .105 (for example) will have the ball end put on the core, 3 covers wrapped around the core, and then trimmed to length. That's five steps in production.

With a flatwound string, the same .105 will have the ball end put on the core, 3 covers wrapped around the core, the flat ribbon wire added to the string, a final polish/grind, silk put on the the headstock end, and then trimmed to length. That's eight steps.

That's three extra steps, and the additional labor, for one string. Compound that over a 4st set, 5st set, etc.. and you can see why they're more expensive.

 

[Dan_reeves]

They're more expensive to make, due to more steps involved in making them. Here's a very general comparison.

With a roundwound string, a .105 (for example) will have the ball end put on the core, 3 covers wrapped around the core, and then trimmed to length. That's five steps in production.

With a flatwound string, the same .105 will have the ball end put on the core, 3 covers wrapped around the core, the flat ribbon wire added to the string, a final polish/grind, silk put on the the headstock end, and then trimmed to length. That's eight steps.

That's three extra steps, and the additional labor, for one string. Compound that over a 4st set, 5st set, etc.. and you can see why they're more expensive.

Thank you!

 

[NorthTexasBass]

Another vote for the TI Flats. Great tension and feel, and they sound amazing. No mud, great mids, and that extra thickness that you can't get with rounds. I switched to them a month ago and am not going back. This is the P Bass sound I've always had in my head.

 

[REV]

Labella 760FX flats are light gauge and have a really snappy sound.

 

[Danny O Danny]

Unlike so many, I didn't care for TI's or EB Cobalts. Both felt sticky and rubbery to me.
My 3 choices are:
GHS Pressurewound (not exactly flatwound though, and brighter than typical flats, but very rich/full sounding and nice on the fingers)
D'Addario ECB81 Flatwound (my current goto for flats)
GHS Precision Flatwound (my previous goto for flats)

 

[stringtheory6]

TI also last a very long time so even though they cost more, it's a break even. Not trying to sell them. I use LB flats on a fretless too. But the TI have a brighter tone. Chromes are quite lively when they are new but after a week or so they mellow. Great flats, high tension. But don't sound like rounds after they break in.

Another option is TI Jazz Rounds, they have a smoother feel so less fret noise. But round wound.

I will try any set on any bass. So I've played a lot of brands. Have fun.

D'Addario Chromes certainly have their place but are too stiff for this discussion IMHO. Polished Optima rb flatwounds are an example of a more relaxed string (round core). Just a bit pricey.
La Bella Black Nylons and their Copper Whites should be mentioned for their smooth mid range character and silky playability. Great strings!

 

[AboutSweetSue]

If you want smooth and thumpy with rounds playability I'd also say La Bella Low Tension Flats.

 

[fourstringdrums]

Dunlop 40-100

 

[DCCat]

Lots of interesting options, thanks for chiming in! I'm intrigued by the Labellas, but they're sadly not available at any of my local online music stores at the moment...so I'm leaning towards the TI's

I think TIs and LTFs are your best bets given your stated goals. Which of them to use depends on your tonal goals, which are less clear. Personally, I've got LTFs on my P and TIs on one of my Js, and I think that's where they fit best, but the TIs are also really good on the P, just not quite as good as the LTFs on that particular bass. If smoothness is also a consideration, the LTFs are super smooth, whereas the TIs are a little rougher (particularly the E and A).

Another thing you might want to consider, though, is tapewounds. Most of them are very flexible (some say that some of them are too much so -- even more than the TIs), but you can probably find a set that feels just right. Most of them are really, really smooth (again, some say too much so, feeling too artificial under the fingers, but I really like the feel of most of them). Most are rounds under the wrap so sound brighter than flats in general, but more subdued than rounds because of the damping effect of the wrap. There are a lot of options, but if you're interested, I'd suggest looking at the D'Addario blacks and the various LaBella whites.

 

[burpgun]

I gave the LaBella low tensions a shot and hated them. They felt weird, the low E string sounded noticeably different than the other three strings, and they were also the deadest strings I've ever dealt with, although some might value that. They were easy to play but I just couldn't deal with sound trade offs so LaBella Deep Talking string replaced them. For me, sometimes the best of both worlds is unobtainable.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

So I'm considering putting flats on my precision because I love the smooth and thumpy sound, but I'm hesitant.

I've only ever tried flats once (they came installed on the p when I bought it used) and they were INCREDIBLY difficult to play. They felt so stiff that I couldn't get through a single song without my fretting hand aching and cramping up. I believe they were some kind of Fender flats.

Now, I wonder: is that just how flats are? Or are there models out there that are more comparable to rounds in terms of comfort? I typically play D'addario nickel wound rounds, 45 - 100 or 105, with no issue.

I'd really appreciate suggestions on flats that are in a similar ball park (if they exist) from you guys.

I'd suggest you try the LaBella Deep Talking Bass Tape Wound Strings. I started with Fender Flat Wounds on my '65 Jazz when I bought it in 1966. Didn't really think much about it. Then I toured for 3-years in the early 70's with a nightclub group playing 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year. I replaced my Flat Wound Fender strings with Fender's Black Tape Wound strings, which definitely had a darker sound to them than the regular flats. Played with those until 1976 when all my touring gear including my 1965 Jazz was stolen when our house was burglarized.

In 1985, I finally found another Jazz Bass with the same neck profile, shape, and radius that my '65 had and bought it. It's an '82 Olympic White passive MIA maple neck Jazz. It came with rounds and I played it with various rounds for about 33-years. About 3-years ago after watching a string comparison video I decided to give the LaBella Tape Wounds a try. Absolutely love these strings.

Although the ones on the video were black tape wounds, I got the white ones to match my White Jazz. They make them in black, white over copper, white over gold, and white (semi-transparent over steel or nickel, not sure). Come to find out the black is the darkest sounding of the bunch and the white is the brightest. Both the white/copper and white/gold are somewhere in between.

The really nice thing about these strings is that they have a nicely balanced timbre across the strings. The sound is far better balanced than any strings I've used before (round wounds I used were primarily Blue Steel - Dean Markley strings or DR- Black Beauty strings). Whereas I would often play a note on the 7th fret of the A or D string instead of the 2nd fret of the D or G string because they sounded so thin and weak there, I will now play those E's and A's wherever it's easiest to reach them in the pattern I'm playing because it sounds good regardless of where it's played.

They are super smooth, which took me a couple of gigs to get used to after playing rounds for so long, but they're not super tight like you mentioned on yours. They are very comfortable to play. In fact, if we're playing Barracuda by Heart, I have to pluck the E string right over or slightly behind the bridge to get enough tension to pull off those galloping triplets distinctly all the time. Plus, since my Jazz has the 70's pickup spacing (4" center to center), it growls very nicely while I'm playing there.

I really think you should give these a try.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Just find some used rounds that are totally dead. I bet if you went to a music store and found a bass with really, really, dead strings, they would sell them to you. Try a used gear store like Music Go Round.

Of course you might have to clean them up a little to get rid of the rusty or metallic smell.

 

[pingvuiini]

I like the feel of tapes (D'Addario black or the various Labella tapes). But the sound is more twang like a roundwound than the thump that you may be looking for.

 

[JoeWPgh]

I never completely understood how higher tension strings require more effort than lower tension. Higher tension strings have less excursion when plucked, so action can be set lower. They may take a little more to press down, but you do not have to press them as far. In most cases, I've found it to be a wash.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I drop a gauge with flats, going from D'Addario XL's to Chromes.

You might want to see if you can get tension data for your preferred brand(s) to see if doing the same will help.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I never completely understood how higher tension strings require more effort than lower tension. Higher tension strings have less excursion when plucked, so action can be set lower. They may take a little more to press down, but you do not have to press them as far. In most cases, I've found it to be a wash.

In decades of playing, I've never really thought about that, but it actually makes a lot of sense. I think many of us string up and play with the same technique, rather than experimenting with different techniques for different strings.

I have a higher tension set of strings I quickly removed because I didn't like them. You've inspired me to try them with a different setup and technique.

Thanks for the thought expansion!

 

[fishdude101101]

So I'm considering putting flats on my precision because I love the smooth and thumpy sound, but I'm hesitant.

I've only ever tried flats once (they came installed on the p when I bought it used) and they were INCREDIBLY difficult to play. They felt so stiff that I couldn't get through a single song without my fretting hand aching and cramping up. I believe they were some kind of Fender flats.

Now, I wonder: is that just how flats are? Or are there models out there that are more comparable to rounds in terms of comfort? I typically play D'addario nickel wound rounds, 45 - 100 or 105, with no issue.

I'd really appreciate suggestions on flats that are in a similar ball park (if they exist) from you guys.

TI jazz flats, LaBella low tenstion flats, or maybe Ernie Ball Cobalt Slinky flats.

I see you are ok with D'addario 45-100 or 45-100. Those are all stiffer than what I mentioned. I think D'addario strings are very stiff in general. I call them the "D'addario Bridge Cable Company"

 

[ComeHomeShane]

I like the Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats... Sure they may not be as high up on the flatwound totem pole as other brands, but they feel flexible and have a nice wide sounding output which is easy to EQ.