Flexibility vs Focus

[ClaytonCroft]

TL;DR: Would you rather a pre-amp that gave you lots of tonal options and effects to cover a wide range of possibilities at potentially the cost of tone, OR a pre-amp that only handled a narrow range of sounds (Comp, OD, EQ), but might not cover everything you might need?

I have been searching for THE pre-amp/effects pedal for quite a while, and the wife would likely kill me if I started spending thousands on a boutique pedalboard. I have a Boss ME-50B and a Zoom b3n, but have really never gelled with them (especially the crap distortions). They were great for a beginner, but I am thinking maybe rather than a multi-effects pedal I should focus on the quality of the basic tones I really use practically. We play classic rock...I have never touched octaves, phasers, tremolo effects.

Pursuing this thought of narrowing it down to essentials, I bought a Darkglass Infinity, but it sounded like garbage and lost all its preset goodness I had saved when I put it live through the SVT. Got frustrated and returned it (maybe too soon?). Also bought a Zoom B6, but I disliked the build quality and it again gave me TOO much I would never use. I have been looking at the Transit B, the EBS MBIII and the Bergantino SuperPre, but am I just expensively chasing marginally better than what I already have?

I don't have an amp at home, only the rehearsal space, so aux, headphones and tuner is a must, for me. Stick with what I've already got and not worry about wasting features I don't use, or sell them and pursue more focused, better quality? Needs vs wants vs GAS!

Thoughts and opinions?

 

[Alien8]

Well the problem is quite clear - new wife!

Joking aside, since you are exploring, something like a Line6 HX Stomp is a great option. You can explore or just find what you like and love it. One box, has headphone out.

The major advantage with it is that whenever you get curious you can try something like an octave, or a different amp. EQ options are deep too. I learned soooo much from running a Line6 unit for many years. Well worth it.

 

[Smurf-o-Deth]

If you had the Infinity set up to your liking, with IRs and such, for headphone use, I'm not surprised you didn't like the results through the SVT, as those are very different use cases. Also, fwiw, anything with an XLR DI output can have a headphone amp with aux in with the simple addition of something like a Rolls PM50, so don't let that feature stop you from something that otherwise suits your needs.

I will say, you might like the Ampeg SGTDI.

 

[sloppy_phil]

Everybody's wants and needs are different. What are yours, ie: what sort of music are you playing and what effects do you need/like to use?

For my own purposes (which is what you asked!), I'd probably go for something which nails a great "core" bass tone. For me, that would likely be as simple as a great clean sound, capable of some hair/drive/boost, and possibly a compressor/limiter. Anything else would be nice, but not truly essential. In my case, a sub-octave is, if not part of the essential group, the one effect I am definitely using more than any other. But, y'know, different strokes, and all that...

I feel like, with time (and appropriate distance between purchases to keep wife happy!), you can build a hybrid board if you so choose. Have that preamp for the basis of your sound, and then you can add a few select pedals to fill any gaps which may appear in the main unit you opt for.

 

[ClaytonCroft]

Phil, great and valid question. In a cover band, doing ZZ, Sabbath, Led, etc. 70s/80s. I'm running into either an SVT 810 or a Hartke 410/SWR 115 split rig. I don't think I need cab sim stuff with that, but that seems to be a major focus with newer units now.

I guess what I'm pursuing is that magic all-in-one that I can use at home and gigging. I'm really new to effects pre-amps, etc, and honestly, a lot of the tech talk on here is beyond my understanding or desire. I want to hone in a few classic, beefy tones, have a useable distortion when I want it, and not need a Masters in Engineering to use the bloody thing.

I think I've narrowed my search to the above three: Berg Super, EBS MB3 or Transit. Hard to tell from YT demos, but I think in my case less might be more. Focus on a great, classic clean.

 

[J Wilson]

I've never understood why I need a preamp pedal with tons of tone control to run into most modern amps that have tons of tone control. Aside from running the two into each other and then getting the 'I can't get the tone I want' (!), if I didn't like the native tone of the amp to begin with or thought a little something was missing, adding more signal modifiers inline seems to me would provide more places for the train to jump the track.

I see these posts from cats with these extensive pedalboards, modelers, preamps, you name it, and they still don't seem like they got where they wanted to go. 'I have an active bass with 3-band EQ running through a ***** preamp pedal and several pedals into my amp with a parametric EQ . . . . and I can't get the tone I want'.
All that and no magic bullet. Really?

If it's an amp I like, a bass I like, I want a great guitar cable and maybe the occasional effect (although a good, transparent compressor is always welcome) for a certain sound on a certain song. For me, less is more, and eliminates a lot of possbible rabbit holes I could easily fall into, and believe me, I'd find them.

To come back to your question, inside the somewhat fixed range of tones a given bass/amp/cabinet is going to offer natively, I'd far rather have options than a single baked-in tone, even if it's great, and a given b/a/c combination will lend itself to more or less possibilities.

 

[sloppy_phil]

@ClaytonCroft I'd give the Ampeg SGT-DI a look as well. Simple, no fuss, no extreme bells and whistles. Just a pretty great Ampeg sound. You can rock out straight into an amp, if needed, or use headphones for when the wife is asleep! At that point, you'd probably actually dig the on-board cab sim, too; sounds great in a pair of cans.

Don't know the Transit, but the Berg and the EBS seem to be well-regarded units around these here parts. Can't imagine either one being a disappointment!

 

[amper]

TL;DR: Would you rather a pre-amp that gave you lots of tonal options and effects to cover a wide range of possibilities at potentially the cost of tone, OR a pre-amp that only handled a narrow range of sounds (Comp, OD, EQ), but might not cover everything you might need?

I have been searching for THE pre-amp/effects pedal for quite a while, and the wife would likely kill me if I started spending thousands on a boutique pedalboard. I have a Boss ME-50B and a Zoom b3n, but have really never gelled with them (especially the crap distortions). They were great for a beginner, but I am thinking maybe rather than a multi-effects pedal I should focus on the quality of the basic tones I really use practically. We play classic rock...I have never touched octaves, phasers, tremolo effects.

Pursuing this thought of narrowing it down to essentials, I bought a Darkglass Infinity, but it sounded like garbage and lost all its preset goodness I had saved when I put it live through the SVT. Got frustrated and returned it (maybe too soon?). Also bought a Zoom B6, but I disliked the build quality and it again gave me TOO much I would never use. I have been looking at the Transit B, the EBS MBIII and the Bergantino SuperPre, but am I just expensively chasing marginally better than what I already have?

I don't have an amp at home, only the rehearsal space, so aux, headphones and tuner is a must, for me. Stick with what I've already got and not worry about wasting features I don't use, or sell them and pursue more focused, better quality? Needs vs wants vs GAS!

Thoughts and opinions?

Buy a Tech21NYC SansAmp Bass Driver DI v2. It's inexpensive, flexible, robust, proven, and sounds great. Alternatively, get a Tech21NYC Q\Strip.

You play classic rock and don't use effects. You are overthinking this.

If you absolutely must have effects, get a Boss BC-1X Bass Comp, and one of the big three tuners*, and stop worrying about it.

* Peterson StroboStomp HD, Boss TU-3, tc electronic Polytune 3

 

[Killing Floor]

Maybe decide what is your ideal tone and go from there. A preamp I love may sound ratty to you. That's the challenge to designers and consumers alike.

I suppose I'd rather have a preamp that was the perfect tone for me. And in my back pocket I know sooner or later I'll have a different perfect tone.

 

[amper]

That said, if you are primarily playing into an amp head and cabinet, you don't *need* a preamp pedal, at all, although they can be useful, anyway. Your amp head almost certainly has a DI.

 

[mrperkolator]

TL;DR: Would you rather a pre-amp that gave you lots of tonal options and effects to cover a wide range of possibilities at potentially the cost of tone, OR a pre-amp that only handled a narrow range of sounds (Comp, OD, EQ), but might not cover everything you might need?

I have been searching for THE pre-amp/effects pedal for quite a while, and the wife would likely kill me if I started spending thousands on a boutique pedalboard. I have a Boss ME-50B and a Zoom b3n, but have really never gelled with them (especially the crap distortions). They were great for a beginner, but I am thinking maybe rather than a multi-effects pedal I should focus on the quality of the basic tones I really use practically. We play classic rock...I have never touched octaves, phasers, tremolo effects.

Pursuing this thought of narrowing it down to essentials, I bought a Darkglass Infinity, but it sounded like garbage and lost all its preset goodness I had saved when I put it live through the SVT. Got frustrated and returned it (maybe too soon?). Also bought a Zoom B6, but I disliked the build quality and it again gave me TOO much I would never use. I have been looking at the Transit B, the EBS MBIII and the Bergantino SuperPre, but am I just expensively chasing marginally better than what I already have?

I don't have an amp at home, only the rehearsal space, so aux, headphones and tuner is a must, for me. Stick with what I've already got and not worry about wasting features I don't use, or sell them and pursue more focused, better quality? Needs vs wants vs GAS!

Thoughts and opinions?

for classic rock stuff... I'd get a tuner, A sushibox pedal with two channels (one for clean, one dirt), a compressor, and a DI for if you want to go ampless. Tuner, compressor, and di can be cheapish or expensive. Snag some used and it'll be even cheaper. Some could argue whether the compressor is needed. Could get this setup much cheaper than some of those near $1k does everything pedals.

If your amp has a serviceable compressor and di... shorten the list further. Sushi has two 2-channel boxes with different flavors: Dreamcatcher and The Detective. I'm not affiliated, but Mr. Sushi is one of us. There's a long thread just for his pedals and those that have/want one. Plenty of info there. If it were me, I'd want to switch between dirt and no dirt quickly, and this would be a good platform for that. But there's plenty of ways to go about it.

a different option... iirc Bassbone OD may be a good pick two. OD section, and two channels setup however you wish.

 

[ClaytonCroft]

Excellent advice, from all of you, thank you! Once you start down that path of "tone-chasing" with effects, it gets hard to stay sane, eh? Surfing TB and seeing all this gear talk always makes me want the Next Thing. Argh!

 

[Stubb]

I wanted a warm, easy to dial in preamp with DI because our band is ampless. Bought an Arkham Oracle. Its eq is way more versatile than it looks, but basically it's very simple to dial in and sounds great with the flatwound strung basses I'm mostly playing these days. I'm sure with a few tweaks it'd be great for a more hifi sound, but that's not my gig these days.

I don't need a ton of flexibility. I need something robust with warmth, musical eq, and a size that worked for my boards. It's the only piece of new gear I've bought since getting serious about playing again three years back and I have zero regrets.

 

[dave hope]

Just one good solid bass tone will get very far if you are playing for a living with pros.
10 alright tones using effects will get you by yourself in your own bedroom.
I go regularly to see local bands who play for a living down here in the gulf coast.
I rarely see any bass players with anything outside of a DI.
Most effects suck. Proof, just look at that box full of effects that you don't use, but you paid to much money for them to throw them away.
I honestly don't see many historical, legendary bass players messing with pedals much.

 

[amper]

I think it's reasonable to assume that people have different ideas about what constitutes "historical" or "legendary".

 

[HelpImaRock]

Buy a Tech21NYC SansAmp Bass Driver DI v2.

get a Boss BC-1X Bass Comp, and one of the big three tuners*, and stop worrying about it.

* Peterson StroboStomp HD,

This is basically my board LOL.

OP, I don't do the all in one thing because I want to control one thing at a time and I like knobs instead of menus. Yes, a board that consists of a Peterson Strobostomp HD, BOSS BC-1x, and Tech 21 BDDIv2 will cost about as much as a Line 6 HX Stomp. But I'm not going to get option paralysis and have to menu dive to tweak settings from home to rehearsal to gig either. It's all right there.

Everyone is different. Find what works for you.

 

[red_rhino]

This is an easy one. I'll choose tone over features, always. Nobody listening cares about your gear's feature set, but they sure as heck notice your tone.

 

[KidAmnesia]

I'd love a preamp with just a volume control that had the tone I want.

 

[Scarysharkface]

TL;DR: Would you rather a pre-amp that gave you lots of tonal options and effects to cover a wide range of possibilities at potentially the cost of tone, OR a pre-amp that only handled a narrow range of sounds (Comp, OD, EQ), but might not cover everything you might need?

I have been searching for THE pre-amp/effects pedal for quite a while, and the wife would likely kill me if I started spending thousands on a boutique pedalboard. I have a Boss ME-50B and a Zoom b3n, but have really never gelled with them (especially the crap distortions). They were great for a beginner, but I am thinking maybe rather than a multi-effects pedal I should focus on the quality of the basic tones I really use practically. We play classic rock...I have never touched octaves, phasers, tremolo effects.

Pursuing this thought of narrowing it down to essentials, I bought a Darkglass Infinity, but it sounded like garbage and lost all its preset goodness I had saved when I put it live through the SVT. Got frustrated and returned it (maybe too soon?). Also bought a Zoom B6, but I disliked the build quality and it again gave me TOO much I would never use. I have been looking at the Transit B, the EBS MBIII and the Bergantino SuperPre, but am I just expensively chasing marginally better than what I already have?

I don't have an amp at home, only the rehearsal space, so aux, headphones and tuner is a must, for me. Stick with what I've already got and not worry about wasting features I don't use, or sell them and pursue more focused, better quality? Needs vs wants vs GAS!

Thoughts and opinions?

I have come to realize that I almost always leave my eq settings flat at the amp, regardless of which bass I'm playing. Ironically, I've got a killer Trickfish rig with great eq, I just don't take advantage of it. I'm also discovering that I'm mostly leaving eq on the basses flat, and just relocating my attack and placement get get what I need. I do this with fretless lakland, fretted alembic, rickenbacker 4003, among others, in a wide variety of genres. So, flexibility is great, but also just having an amp that reproduces more faithfully the sound of the bass might be all I need. Good luck in your quest.

John

 

[Wasnex]

I would rather have one good tone that suits my needs than a bunch of crappy tones.

I am more into amps than preamps. I do have a preamp but it's pretty awful. I bought it because it was cheap and had the features I wanted. Cheap was the priority at the time.

Now I have a bunch of really nice amps. I would say all of them are capable of awesome tone, but they don't all necessarily suit my live performance needs. For live performance I like a rig that cuts through the mayhem. For context, I bought almost all of my amps after I retired from playing live.

My observation is amps tend to have a basic voicing that is baked in. The power and flexibility of the tone controls to get other usable sounds varies pretty drastically. Some of my amps are pretty much a set it and forget it type. You dial in the best sound possible and there is not much you can do to adjust to the room. I put my CTM300 in this category. The push buttons give you some variety in the tones this amp can produce, but the rotary controls are interactive and don't always behave intuitively. In fact I find them sort of confounding. The problem is when you twist a knob you don't necessary get the change that you expect.

Some amps tend to be pretty good for adjusting to the room, but they aren't really all that capable of dialing in different sounds. I would put my Gallien Krueger RB series amps in this category. I generally adjust this amp at the gig to produce even response across the range of my bass. It's easy to get a balanced sound, but I would say it always sounds pretty much the same.

I think the best solution for me is to find an amp that has a core voicing that is very close to the type of tone that I want. Ideally the amp will have powerful and flexible tone controls that behave intuitively to modify the sound in a way that makes sense to me.

For comparison consider the Genz Benz GBE1200 and Mesa M9 Carbine. I find the Genz Benz very easy to dial in, and it is capable of producing a variety of tones. I would say it's relatively HiFi and focused and creates the perception of massive headroom.

I would say the M9 has similar tone goals, but it's a bit more aggressive in the high mids and also the M9 seems to have really huge and somewhat loose lows in comparison. I may be able to get a slightly better tone from the M9, but I find it much harder to dial in. I often feel that I am close, but can't seem to get all the way there.

Although the M9 has powerful tone controls, I find that I struggle to get the nice smooth high mids and tight focused lows I like. I think this is because the bands on the graphic are not centered exactly where I need them to be and they seem to interact with each other in a way that makes dialing in a sound less intuitive. Adjust one control for the desired effect, and it frequently causes another problem somewhere else. For the record, I found the trick to getting more controlled lows from this amp is highly dependent on how you set the compressor. Dipping the lowest band on the graphic alone did not meet my expectations.

For live performance, I think the Genz Benz would be a much better choice for me. I really like the basic tone and it seems super easy (for me) to dial in a good sound.

Keep in mind, you could try the same two amps and come to the conclusion the Mesa is far better suited for your needs. There is no universal right answer here. The best way to find gear that really sounds good is to play everything you can get your hands on. Eventually you come across pieces that you want to take home.