Double Bass Flying with bass tips

[Hqubed]

In case anyone is interested a full copy of Public Law 112-95 which goes into effect on Feb 14, 2014 is attached here. Musical Instruments, and thus UB, is covered under Section 403 and addressed specifically under 49 USC 41724 on pages 84 & 85 (it will be 74 & 75 for a printer due to how the PDF is numbered).

Might help to have a copy on smart devise and these pages printed when flying.

Cheers!

 

[futurebass77]

I flew out of LAX on Southwest recently, and it was the best. They didn't weigh my bass and TSA let me unpack for them. They were incredibly helpful.

Southwest at Dallas Love Field wouldn't let me fly unless I took the soft case out, resulting in damage, after an apparent mishandling. I was 8lbs over the limit of 100. I showed them the FAA Modernization and Reform Act that extends the weight limit to 165lbs., but they were not accepting it because the bill specifically states that "(B) the weight of the instrument does not exceed 165 pounds OR THE APPLICABLE WEIGHT RESTRICTIONS FOR THE AIRCRAFT"

I feel that this bill is somewhat powerless against airlines because of the words I put in bold.

What do you guys think?

 

[PaulCannon]

Airlines won't do anything until the FAA issues new guidelines as it was required to do in the 2012 law, but the FAA missed that deadline.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

From the article:

Members of Tennessee’s Congressional delegation slammed the Federal Aviation Administration on Tuesday for failing to protect musical instruments on commercial airline flights.

Led by U.S. Rep. Jim Cooper, D-Nashville, and Sen. Lamar Alexander, lawmakers fired off a letter to Department of Transportation Secretary Anthony Fox accusing the agency of not implementing provisions in the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act.

…

The provisions were supposed to be in place by Friday, but the lawmakers say the FAA is behind schedule in creating the guidelines.

The FAA is claiming they lack sufficient funds to write and enforce new guidelines as the musical instrument provision came without any additional funding.

I doubt it would cost the FAA much, if anything, to write a three-page document, and I'm not sure what kind of "enforcing" they think requires extra funding. This is probably the agency's way of protesting budget cuts. Hopefully this will be sorted out soon.

 

[PaulCannon]

I showed them the FAA Modernization and Reform Act that extends the weight limit to 165lbs., but they were not accepting it because the bill specifically states that "(B) the weight of the instrument does not exceed 165 pounds OR THE APPLICABLE WEIGHT RESTRICTIONS FOR THE AIRCRAFT"

Were you on a particularly small aircraft? Some planes really can't take on significant cargo. Either way, airline employees are bound to enforce their company policy regardless of new regulations. They're not the ones who get in trouble if their policy is no longer legal, but they do have a problem with their superiors when they ignore procedure.

The FAA is way behind schedule in writing new guidelines, and it will likely be a few months until airlines update their own policies.

 

[THE SAW]

I have nothing helpful to add. That said:

I would never, ever, let chimps handle, transport, touch or otherwise be in custody of a valuable instrument on any airline at any time. When you check a bass, your chances of damage are 50-50.

Good luck to you poor devils who must fly. BTW, check your insurance policies regarding these matters as well. I'm talking about the fine print.

 

[ForTheBass]

I have nothing helpful to add. That said:

I would never, ever, let chimps handle, transport, touch or otherwise be in custody of a valuable instrument on any airline at any time. When you check a bass, your chances of damage are 50-50.

I have flown dozens of times and never had any problems. Yes, of course it is possible, but certainly not a 50/50 chance. What other choice do we have as auditioning bassists??

Also, calling baggage handlers/TSA chimps is quite frankly offensive. There's no need for that here.

 

[Jeremy Darrow]

After an unpleasant surprise at the airport a few months ago, I decided to start a Facebook group for double bassists who fly regularly. Since the rules and their enforcement are inconsistent at best, it seemed like it would be a good idea to create a place where we can at least share information and our experiences. Hopefully, it will help players to avoid unnecessary stress or expense. It's a little Nashville-heavy right now (lots of Folding Bass users) but I'd like to get as wide a variety of players there as possible, the more the merrier. If you fly with your bass, please join the conversation.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/906917935990680/

 

[bellabass]

My bass was just refused as baggage on a United flight from SFO-Sydney. The reasoning behind it was that the linear dimensions exceed their limit of 115″. My Gage flight case comes in at 138 linear inches (H+W+L) if measured at the widest parts. I offered to pay any amount of excess/overweight charges but with no success. What is so confusing about United is that they actually have a policy that states that they will accept ‘string basses’ that weigh up to 99.9lb but do not exceed 115 linear inches. My question is, are there any flight cases out there that come in under 115 linear inches?! I don’t think such a thing exists. I find their whole policy misleading, particularly after a phone representative told me that the bass would be fine. At check in, I tried every trick in the book, including showing them the FAA Modernisation Act, but they wouldn't accept it. I've been forced to ship my bass cargo which will likely be extremely expensive. It has been a terrible experience. Avoid United if you can.

 

[PaulCannon]

My bass was just refused as baggage on a United flight from SFO-Sydney. The reasoning behind it was that the linear dimensions exceed their limit of 115″. My Gage flight case comes in at 138 linear inches (H+W+L) if measured at the widest parts. I offered to pay any amount of excess/overweight charges but with no success. What is so confusing about United is that they actually have a policy that states that they will accept ‘string basses’ that weigh up to 99.9lb but do not exceed 115 linear inches. My question is, are there any flight cases out there that come in under 115 linear inches?! I don’t think such a thing exists. I find their whole policy misleading, particularly after a phone representative told me that the bass would be fine. At check in, I tried every trick in the book, including showing them the FAA Modernisation Act, but they wouldn't accept it. I've been forced to ship my bass cargo which will likely be extremely expensive. It has been a terrible experience. Avoid United if you can.

Hey Bella! I'm so sorry that happened to you. There's a few steps you can take if you're looking for a refund. You should start by Invalid Link Removed with the airline directly, being sure to cite the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 (Section 403). You can now also point to the Department of Transportation's own Invalid Link Removed, published just a few weeks ago (though they will not formally go into effect until March of this year). These guidelines clearly state an upper limit of 165 pounds and 150 linear inches for checked oversize musical instruments.

If they refuse to acknowledge your complaint, or dismiss it based on their own guidelines, you should Invalid Link Removed and cc a copy of that complaint to United. You might also consider a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. I suppose you could also threaten to involve the musician's union, but I'm not sure actually submitting a complaint to the AFM would do you any good in this case -- particularly if you're not a current member.

United's guidelines are simply out of date. Not only did they bully you into severely overpaying for a service you were entitled to, but they knowingly ignored federal statutes, FAA regulations, and DOT guidelines in the process.

If you're lucky, they'll offer you some vouchers just to get you off their backs. The good news is that they're being forced to re-write their own policies at this very moment, but unfortunately that's coming a couple months too late for you. Best of luck.

 

[Feral Feline]

My bass was just refused as baggage on a United flight from SFO-Sydney. The reasoning behind it was that the linear dimensions exceed their limit of 115″. My Gage flight case comes in at 138 linear inches (H+W+L) if measured at the widest parts. I offered to pay any amount of excess/overweight charges but with no success. What is so confusing about United is that they actually have a policy that states that they will accept ‘string basses’ that weigh up to 99.9lb but do not exceed 115 linear inches. My question is, are there any flight cases out there that come in under 115 linear inches?! I don’t think such a thing exists. I find their whole policy misleading, particularly after a phone representative told me that the bass would be fine. At check in, I tried every trick in the book, including showing them the FAA Modernisation Act, but they wouldn't accept it. I've been forced to ship my bass cargo which will likely be extremely expensive. It has been a terrible experience. Avoid United if you can.

You need to shoot a music video ...


I imagine the 115" rule lets United "accept" string basses theoretically without actually having to do so. You'd think United had learned its lesson with the bad publicity involving the Dave Carroll fiasco and would now bend over backwards to accommodate musicians.

Rudest most foul-tempered stewardesses ever? United, based on my experience. Don't fly United if you can help it.

 

[dkimbrobass]

This is one of the better conversations about this topic, and though I fly often I've learned a few things. I will definitely be insisting that I am present for security checks from now on. I gotta say, that if folks are taking their REAL basses on Southwest for $50, then I'm seriously considering trying to bring my bass next time instead of the Eminence or Chadwick, since sometimes they charge for the Chadwick anyway.

Question: It's often suggested to take the tension off (loosen yo' strings) guitars and other stringed yet soundpost-less instruments when flying. This would make me pretty nervous about the soundpost falling on my bass since there's a lot of jostling around happening during loading, flight, and unloading. So is this advisable? Thanks everyone. -DK

 

[dkimbrobass]

Jeremy Kurtz, if you're ever in Knoxville, drinks on me. Good man.

While we all still have to occasionally fight it out with specific airlines when flying with our instruments (until the new weight restrictions go into effect) one important thing I recently discovered was contact numbers for the TSA Customer Support Managers at individual airports.

Even though it's always a relief when the airline accepts the bass without a fuss, you still often have to worry about what will happen to the bass during TSA inspection--at least, for the airports where they do that behind closed doors. I've heard several horror stories about the TSA repacking a bass terribly, leaving latches or straps undone, and other issues that have caused damage.

If you call the national TSA number (1-866-289-9673) and select option #5, you can ask to get the name and contact number of the TSA customer support manager at your airport. I've done this before, and told the manager of my situation, and why it's very important that I watch while they inspect the flight trunk. I was very impressed when they went to extra efforts to work out the logistics to make this happen, and it has made going to the airport a much less stressful ordeal. I've done the same thing for the return flights, and so far, I've had good luck (as long as you call a few days ahead so they have time to figure things out.)

And another perk is that when the TSA manager walks up to the airline counter with you and explains to the desk agent that you've made special arrangements for inspection, they sometimes are so focused on that they forget to charge you oversize fees

Interested to hear if anyone else has had luck with this . . .

-Jeremy

 

[zontar]

First a disclaimer
I do not own a double bass & have never had to travel with one& I realize what I am going yo post will not always be an option, but I have heard of people who ship their instruments as opposed to taking them as baggage.

Has anybody here tried that?

 

[bellabass]

First a disclaimer
I do not own a double bass & have never had to travel with one& I realize what I am going yo post will not always be an option, but I have heard of people who ship their instruments as opposed to taking them as baggage.

Has anybody here tried that?

Hi Zontar,

That is exactly what I am doing right now. However, shipping is generally a much more expensive option, and in order to ship cargo you almost always need to have a business account with the cargo company. The only reason I am able to ship my bass cargo is through the account of a bass shop. If it weren't for them, I would have had no options whatsoever to get my bass to Sydney and then on to New Zealand, having been rejected by my airline. Additionally, when you ship a bass it doesn't necessarily end up on the same plane as you. Mine will be arriving a good four days after I have.

 

[zontar]

Mine will be arriving a good four days after I have.

And that's one reason it may not always work

 

[Jeremy Darrow]

While we all still have to occasionally fight it out with specific airlines when flying with our instruments (until the new weight restrictions go into effect) one important thing I recently discovered was contact numbers for the TSA Customer Support Managers at individual airports.

Even though it's always a relief when the airline accepts the bass without a fuss, you still often have to worry about what will happen to the bass during TSA inspection--at least, for the airports where they do that behind closed doors. I've heard several horror stories about the TSA repacking a bass terribly, leaving latches or straps undone, and other issues that have caused damage.

If you call the national TSA number (1-866-289-9673) and select option #5, you can ask to get the name and contact number of the TSA customer support manager at your airport. I've done this before, and told the manager of my situation, and why it's very important that I watch while they inspect the flight trunk. I was very impressed when they went to extra efforts to work out the logistics to make this happen, and it has made going to the airport a much less stressful ordeal. I've done the same thing for the return flights, and so far, I've had good luck (as long as you call a few days ahead so they have time to figure things out.)

And another perk is that when the TSA manager walks up to the airline counter with you and explains to the desk agent that you've made special arrangements for inspection, they sometimes are so focused on that they forget to charge you oversize fees

Interested to hear if anyone else has had luck with this . . .

-Jeremy

Jeremy, with your permission I'd like to copy this information to the Double Bassist Air-Travel group on Facebook.

 

[anightintunisia]

I had issues flying to Cabo ,Mexico from LAX on United. I rented a folding bass that came in a small square box with wheels weighing in at 49ibs. United's overweight bagge is 50ibs. I got to the desk, the lady was very nice and she was having trouble registering an oversized baggage onto the plane. Turns out there is a 'summer embargo' on oversized luggage on international flights in the summer. So she told me technically the bass is not aloud on the plane. After a moment of panic, she said she was going to register the bass as overweight baggage to help me get the bass on board. I had to pay $350 each way. Really took a huge dent out of the gig money. If you're flying in the summer internationally, call before to make sure oversized baggage will be excepted!

Now the story isn't done. When I got to Cabo I immediately saw that the bass box was in trouble. The top was not put back on properly and the Velcro strip that secures the top was essentially completely hanging off. So I open the box and there is a TSA piece of paper basically saying they were not able to put the luggage back together and are not responsible for any damages. Luckily the bass wasn't damaged and nothing was missing, but I was in disbelief how careless the TSA had been. They weren't able to figure out how to put the top back on, or to lazy and didn't care. If it was my personal bass I would have been more pissed, but since it was a rental I let it slide.

 

[bshaw]

I flew RT on United Tuesday, February 17th (2015) from Houston (IAH) to Chicago (ORD) to pick up a bass. I used an older Gage case, weighs 63lbs empty. One-way, empty case = $225. Return trip, with bass (97lbs) = $425. So, I spent $650 on oversize / overweight, for a $275 flight. There was the drama of classifying it in their system, weighing it, multiple tape measure attempts, calling for a supervisor, etc. I've flown off and on, domestic and international, throughout the years, and this was pretty much the norm. Sometimes I've paid nothing, sometimes I've paid a lot more than I believed was even remotely appropriate, all sorts of different airlines. I think what people have said here earlier is true; show up early, be professional and courteous, and, my 2 cents, just understand that in these situations you will have very little control of the outcome. I know some bassists who were denied the chance to check their bass under the plane, period, for any amount of money.

In Chicago, I was able to open the case and let the TSA have a look. They did not ask me to take the bass out or anything, made some small talk, placed their inspection paper inside and out, and then let me close it. But that all occurred because I was still close enough after checking it to overhear them shouting to each other that "there's no key!"(Key was clear-taped to the front with 2" black sharpie writing 'KEY'), and "We can't open it!".

Anyway, although the overages were expensive, doing this trip this way allowed me to avoid hotel, car rental, and the differing travel timings of shipping the bass cargo. I just wanted to share a very recent experience on US domestic travel, thanks for starting the thread Matt!