Double Bass Found a 1960 King Morotone for sale...

[sadwinkey]

Found a 1960 Blonde King Morotone 3/4 upright...Fella wants $2000.
Have never heard of Morotone before. I would be upgrading from a Cremona sb-2
Typically, the band that I am in plays rockabilly, folk, and jazz.

Is this a good deal? What are your thoughts on King Morotone basses?
I attached the picture of it.
Thanks!

*edit* More pictures attached. Is this wear and tear normal for a bass of this age?
*edit 2*
Was also informed that It’s "had a neck set". What does this mean?





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[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

They’re only arguably the finest plywood basses ever made in America. My ‘34 is a knockout.

That one is mid-‘50s and could be great for what you play. Is Jasper from KY the person selling it?

 

[sadwinkey]

Thanks for the response!
Nah, this guy is in TN.

If this bass is in good condition, does the price seem about right?

 

[Steven Ayres]

First, it's Mortone, not Morotone. Second, yeah, it's a good bass.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

If this bass is in good condition, does the price seem about right?

I see people trying to get $4500 for Mortones regularly. $2k is in the wheelhouse.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Looks to be in good shape, and KFS is right about the "vintage mojo value". Do these basses have the same ultra thin neck profile as some of their contemporaries (old Kays, American Standards, etc.)? What about neck heel issues that the Kays always seem to have?

 

[james condino]

Is it the longer 43 3/8" scale?

 

[Rod Sroufe]

Looks to be in good shape, and KFS is right about the "vintage mojo value". Do these basses have the same ultra thin neck profile as some of their contemporaries (old Kays, American Standards, etc.)? What about neck heel issues that the Kays always seem to have?

The neck on my 61 Mortone is not thin at all. I’ve played Kays and Engelhardts that are much thinner. Mine was a high school rescue where the neck had, I assume, been broken out and put back in with 19 nails and crooked to boot. 10 days in the hands of Chris Roberts at the Cincinnati Bass Cellar fixed all that, including improving the overstand angle, and now it’s in excellent condition. If that instrument is like mine, it will be VERY loud acoustically. Perfect for Bluegrass etc.

 

[Rod Sroufe]

Forgot to add the string length will be at least 43 inches unless it had been altered.

 

[sadwinkey]

Thanks for the thus far, everyone!
Was able to get a few more pictures; attached them to the original post.Was also informed that It’s "had a neck set". What does this mean?

 

[Steven Ayres]

It’s "had a neck set". What does this mean?

The neck has been taken off and reset in the top block. This was not done well previously. It may serve as is, but if you have a good luthier redo this you'll be able to repair the damage to the ribs in the neck area and likely improve the joint and thereby the voice of the bass.

 

[edhead]

For what it is worth. I bought my 61 Mortone 2 years ago for $1800, it was listed at $2000. No repairs had been done to it. Very pleased with it. I'd ask for a lower price to get the neck done properly, get an estimate and see if he would drop the price by 50% of that cost.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Yeesh. That’s terrible work.

 

[sadwinkey]

Thanks you guys. Decided not to buy the bass, as I can really only afford to own one upright at the moment, and that one seemed like too much of a risk.

 

[s0707]

Question from a newbie: why is that neck repair a bad one?

I'm thinking that from the perspective of woodworking, a pinned mortise & tenon joint should be stronger than a standard mortise & tenon. At least, that's what I think was done on the repair: three dowels pinning the tenon on the mortise... Of course, there's the aesthetics of the holes on the ribs.

 

[Steven Ayres]

Question from a newbie: why is that neck repair a bad one?

You can see why a lot of non-luthiers approach the problem of a loose neck with reengineering ideas. It seems like a simple problem: have the neck stay in the right place. On that criterion alone, this is not a bad repair. But there are other important parameters that are neglected. The aesthetics of a nice clean joint and smooth lines are obvious, but before that comes repairability. When you start driving screws and dowels into the joint, you make repair a much bigger and more difficult job. Further, you haven't actually addressed the real problem and it's likely to recur, making your repairability problem more pertinent.

When a dovetail joint pops and the neck tilts forward, the tension is compressing both the dovetail and the cheeks of the mortise, permanently changing the internal dimensions of the joint. Applying glue and pushing the neck back in place can't work, because the joint can no longer resist the tension. So the second time the non-luthier tries to fix it, if he understands carpentry he'll pop a dowel or two in there, if he doesn't it'll be bolts and screws. Both these guys forget that it's not the fastener that bears the tension, it's the joint.

The engineering of stringed instruments evolved over hundreds of years and has been working well for hundreds more. The dovetail joint taken up by US manufacturers in the first third of the last century was an innovation to make the instruments cheaper and easier to make. To that extent it was successful, but the instruments weren't expected to last very long either, so as they age the weakness makes itself known. Good practice demands that the luthier rebuild that joint so someone else won't have to fix the same failure.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I'm thinking that from the perspective of woodworking, a pinned mortise & tenon joint should be stronger than a standard mortise & tenon.

No. By reducing the already insufficient amount of wood present, the "repair" weakened it still further.

 

[s0707]

Ok. Thanks. It makes sense.

I was thinking of a joint where you have a good mortise and good tenon, and then pinning it with a dowel makes it even stronger. But it's most likely that the repair was made on a damaged tenon/mortise or dovetail, so the dowel is not holding much of the tenon or the dovetail on the neck... I see now.

 

[sadwinkey]

Thanks for all the info everyone! And thanks for taking the time to write that up Steven. Really informative.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I was thinking of a joint where you have a good mortise and good tenon,

It almost certainly has neither.

The ‘39 I dragged home years ago had some truly awful neck repairs and needed a reset. When I finally got the neck out I was shocked at how sloppy the fit was. Tiny tenon, tight on one side, 1/8” of air space on the other. When the glue fails all that’s holding the neck in place is the mortise cheeks. Big problem.