JazznFunk said:
Energetic LaFaro?! That's all we need! I'll go find it today!!
I was getting really tired of that cat just sluffin' through all those dates!
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Double Bass Free Jazz
- Thread starter Velkov
- Start date
Energetic LaFaro?! That's all we need! I'll go find it today!!
I was getting really tired of that cat just sluffin' through all those dates!
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
Paul Warburton said:
haha... not that he was sluffin' through any of the other dates. no way! to my ears this is just more intense than some of his other work, which is in no way meant to belittle any of his other output. LaFaro is the man, plain and simple.
JazznFunk said:
Wow! This is the most successful discussion I've ever started on Talkbass. Thank you guys! Lots of good thoughts there.
Let's open a new can of worms then. I have found over the past few months that I don't think I have a favourite bass player. I like Ray Brown. I like Dave Holland. I like Scott LaFaro. But my favourite musicians are not bass players. There is no bass player that I respect as much as I respect Coltrane, McCoy Tyner, Elvin Jones, Miles, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ornette Coleman, Lester Bowie, Michael Brecker, Brian Blade the list can fill up a page. I love Mingus but more as a band leader, and composer. In fact the only bass player that absolutely WOWs me, as a bass player is Paul Jackson from the headhunters. Maybe this is just my taste.
Does anybody else here find that while you love playing bass, most of your favourite musicians are not bass players?
Velkov said:
Definately. For Jazz you pretty much can't sit and just dig bass players. You have to realize there's a diffrence between Charlie Parker and someone like Ray Brown, in terms of what they did for the music (not that Ray wasn't great but..). As much as I love bass playing and bass players the biggest innovators in jazz ARE horn players and chordalists...But there is something to be learnt from every jazz great, no doubt!
However, there's a reason why the majority of my jazz records aren't led by bass players.
There's just no point in denying this.
/lovebown
Absolutely. I also found myself agreeing with everything in that post, except the part about Paul Jackson, mostly because I don't know his work that well.Velkov said:
Just to play devil's advocate, I wonder if some pianists, for example, find more inspiration from say trumpet players than they do other pianists. Maybe our favorite musicians are the ones we'd most like to play with, if we could have a fantasy band.
I remember reading or hearing a quote somewhere about something like - no matter how much I like bass playing, I hope when I get to Heaven that it's a great trumpeter playing the melody!! 
I love trumpet in Jazz bands and although I appreciate any type of live Jazz, I always seem to enjoy it more when there are horns in the band - like Tenor and Trumpet!
I love trumpet in Jazz bands and although I appreciate any type of live Jazz, I always seem to enjoy it more when there are horns in the band - like Tenor and Trumpet!
Velkov said:
I think there is a big difference between electric Bass Guitar players in Jazz and Double Bass players.
So when I was younger in the 1970s, I was really into rock, but listened to a lot of Jazz Rock Fusion and there you did hear virtuoso BG players leading the band and wowing people with their chops - like Jaco, Stanley, Marcus and others.
But it's only in the last 5 or 6 years that I have really got into acoustic Jazz and built up my collection of CDs and what really struck me was how DB players are more restrained, happier to be in the background - even to the point of being inaudible and certainly less flashy, less showing off and more about music.
So, when I was teenager the virtues of this approach passed me by - but I seem to change my preferences as I get older and especially as I meet some of these players and get to talk to them - have lessons with them.
I find the DB players I have met to be extremely knowledgable about music in general and committed to creating collaboratively, which tends to make me respect them a lot more!
Bruce Lindfield said:
I see what you're sayign but I wouldn't put Paul Jackson in the same category as those three. They were/are virtuosos. Paul Jackson never played a solo in the tunes that I know him for. He's not a show off. But listening to some of his playing from that era, I think he's the funkiest man on earth.
Velkov said:I see what you're sayign but I wouldn't put Paul Jackson in the same category as those three. They were/are virtuosos. Paul Jackson never played a solo in the tunes that I know him for. He's not a show off. But listening to some of his playing from that era, I think he's the funkiest man on earth.
True - but I still think there is a sense in which Jazz bass guitar is loud and up-front - especially on funky stuff like Headhunters - whereas Jazz DB is nearly always more in the background and often subliminal to the point of being inaudible - or maybe rather, "felt" as the heartbeat, than heard as explicitly....?
Bruce Lindfield said:
I agree for the most part. Electric bass has a more in-your-face sound than DB. However there are double bass players that try to get to the front of the mix and sometimes it's quite successful like Dave Holland's recent stuff...
Velkov said:
When I've seen Dave Holland's quintet live - the bass has tended to be in the background - apart from during the bass solos, when the band of course gave a lot of space. But the rest of the time, it was drowned out by the drums.
At the same venue as I saw the DH Quintet, I also saw Joe Zawinul's group with Victor Bailey and his bass guitar was totally upfront and loud throughout - I didn't miss a note, whereas in the same venue sitting in the same place, I heard very little of Dave Holland's "groove" playing!
Does anybody else here find that while you love playing bass, most of your favourite musicians are not bass players?
There are favourite bass players I like to listen a lot, but I listen to them very differently than horn players and guitarists.
Bass players tend to inspire my playing by providing different choices of time, rhytmic figures, grooves and lines than I would play, but when soloing, I try to phrase and breath as I was playing a trumpet or sax. The music comes out much easier.
Strangely, I usually get very little out of piano or keyboard playing, doesn´t make any difference WHO is playing.
There´s just too much, I guess. Anyhow, that´s one of the reasons there´s no piano in our octet´s rhythm section. We thought one harmony instrument is enough, and since we have a guitar, there´s no need to **** up five horns´harmony with extended piano chords...
my 0.02$
R2
There are favourite bass players I like to listen a lot, but I listen to them very differently than horn players and guitarists.
Bass players tend to inspire my playing by providing different choices of time, rhytmic figures, grooves and lines than I would play, but when soloing, I try to phrase and breath as I was playing a trumpet or sax. The music comes out much easier.
Strangely, I usually get very little out of piano or keyboard playing, doesn´t make any difference WHO is playing.
There´s just too much, I guess. Anyhow, that´s one of the reasons there´s no piano in our octet´s rhythm section. We thought one harmony instrument is enough, and since we have a guitar, there´s no need to **** up five horns´harmony with extended piano chords...
my 0.02$
R2
arto alho said:
R2, i'm a little surprised by this statement by you. Can you explain a little more?
Actually, for me, there are are a few surprising statements made by some of you. Part of it is the fact that i'm not into bass guitar as much as you guys that play the instrument are.
Well, actually I only meant that when I listen to piano players´solos, they do not inspire me exactly the same way as horn solos. I love harmonies, and enjoy playing with piano players, of course, especially trio stuff. And since piano is essential in Jazz music, there´s no way to neglect it´s role.
It´s just that comparing a solo played with a string instrument ( bass ) and mechanical orchestra ( piano ) is hard, unless the piano player puts the left hand in his pocket. That´s why I tend to think like a horn player, who also needs to say everything with a single note line.
And forget my bass guitar playing, it´s crap.
R2
It´s just that comparing a solo played with a string instrument ( bass ) and mechanical orchestra ( piano ) is hard, unless the piano player puts the left hand in his pocket. That´s why I tend to think like a horn player, who also needs to say everything with a single note line.
And forget my bass guitar playing, it´s crap.
R2
arto alho said:
Mechanical orchestra? I can't agree....some of my favorite solos are played by pianists, most of which have little to do with what instrument they were playing. I was listening last night to "Goodbye" off of that Cannonball record "Something Else" Bill Evans solo on that tune is one of my favorite solos on any instrument, having not much to do with the fact that he's playing the piano.
What do you think of people like Roland kirk who worked at playing more than one tone at a time?
As a bassist, I enjoy playing double and triple stops.
I LOVE PIANO! I LOVE PIANO! Got it?
The mechanical orchestra was a joke. Anyhow, Roland Kirk & playing double or triple stops are niches, considering you don´t play them 99% of your total playing time.
I really don´t wanna argue about this, but when I´m playin bass, I put out a single note line ( 99% of the time ) and try to be in context with the rest of the players. Playing a piano solo would be a very different approach, since I´d have to deal with the harmony and add it to my line, instead of letting someone else play it. As much as I would love to, I can´t handle it.
I think I have a very emotional relationship to hearing musical
statements. Like singing, the sound of a trumpet or sax or bone or freaking french horn rings to my ears differently than piano. Hope this is over now.
Agree bout Bill Evans. It´s the music, not the instrument
it´s been played with. He found his voice playing piano, I never did.
R2
The mechanical orchestra was a joke. Anyhow, Roland Kirk & playing double or triple stops are niches, considering you don´t play them 99% of your total playing time.
I really don´t wanna argue about this, but when I´m playin bass, I put out a single note line ( 99% of the time ) and try to be in context with the rest of the players. Playing a piano solo would be a very different approach, since I´d have to deal with the harmony and add it to my line, instead of letting someone else play it. As much as I would love to, I can´t handle it.
I think I have a very emotional relationship to hearing musical
statements. Like singing, the sound of a trumpet or sax or bone or freaking french horn rings to my ears differently than piano. Hope this is over now.
Agree bout Bill Evans. It´s the music, not the instrument
it´s been played with. He found his voice playing piano, I never did.
R2
arto alho said:
I sure do get it!! Boy do I ever get it!
[/QUOTE] Hope this is over now. [/QUOTE]
It's for sure over..... Yesiree, it is over!
let me just quote the russian composer Dmitri Sostakovic:
"Which music is good or bad? I don't know and I am not able to give a precise answer. Maybe there is no good or bad music, but only music which is able to touch your soul and music which is not transmitting any feeling, that's all!".
This simple rule works on all music - Free Jazz included.
And it proves it is subjective...
giorgio
Invalid Link Removed
"Which music is good or bad? I don't know and I am not able to give a precise answer. Maybe there is no good or bad music, but only music which is able to touch your soul and music which is not transmitting any feeling, that's all!".
This simple rule works on all music - Free Jazz included.
And it proves it is subjective...
giorgio
Invalid Link Removed
