Fretboard Knowledge

[Eublet]

As I call it the classic "mistake" in learning is to "find a note quickly"
The reason it is a classic mistake is because we never ever have to find a note quickly in the sense it is being practised. If you are choosing the note, then you already have an intuitive idea where it will be, if some else is calling the note, then you are finding it from a single starting position, rather than the way music really works. Music flows towards, through, and away from notes so it is about the relation of them to a key. That's why the recommendation when learning to do it in all 12 keys works, because you are learning, if you will, the same patterns of fingering or fret mapping, but each time the note used is different. Using this technique ensures you have to think of the relationship between the notes being played rather than the pattern being played, so you do not get tied into pattern association of just repeating the pattern without knowing the notes.Try it for a week or so and watch that problem you have on the D and G string disappear as you learn to play, name and transpose flowing notes around the fretboard.

For example when you know a song in one key and then you met another band or a singer that do it in a different key, you can transpose the pattern around to suit, but if you also know what the notes are being used then you can work and create within the frame work of keys. That may sound like a trivial thing in your practice, but it will reinforce the habit to become a normal thing you just hear and know in the long run.*

This is what Willis' book largely deals with...knowing patterns and being able to play through notes harmonically using your ear rather than hunting and pecking at individual notes.

 

[Russell L]

In actuality, for me, since I know theory I can figure out whatever I need to play---or, that is, I can understand all the relationships between notes, keys, etc. But, when I'm playing I use patterns a lot. I don't always think about WHAT the notes ARE, even though I know what they are. But, then again, maybe if I didn't KNOW what they are it would make a difference. I think patterns are a good thing, but it helps tremendously to know what the notes are AND to know basic theory. I think learning basic theory is the singlemost helpful thing any musician can do for themself.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

In actuality, for me, since I know theory I can figure out whatever I need to play---or, that is, I can understand all the relationships between notes, keys, etc. But, when I'm playing I use patterns a lot. I don't always think about WHAT the notes ARE, even though I know what they are. But, then again, maybe if I didn't KNOW what they are it would make a difference. I think patterns are a good thing, but it helps tremendously to know what the notes are AND to know basic theory. I think learning basic theory is the singlemost helpful thing any musician can do for themself.

LOL Russell, i wish i could bottle up the feeling you have described and sell it. This is a point in fact, that when you do the right kind of practice and learn the correct sort of ideas, everthing cones together to produce the result you want. No one thing on its own van be said to have been the key, that will differ from person to person ....experience to experience. But as Russell says he cannot be sure if his learning now would have been different if he did not learn in the way he did, the answer is yes it is different. It is different because he can elaborate on what he has learned and build on it. For example i can teach anyone every mode to play on a bass in seconds.

Play a C major scale in seven inversions.

Only works if you know a C major scale but like i said only took seconds rather than hours, because of already gained knowledge.

 

[Dazey]

As I call it the classic "mistake" in learning is to "find a note quickly"
The reason it is a classic mistake is because we never ever have to find a note quickly in the sense it is being practised. If you are choosing the note, then you already have an intuitive idea where it will be, if some else is calling the note, then you are finding it from a single starting position, rather than the way music really works. Music flows towards, through, and away from notes so it is about the relation of them to a key. That's why the recommendation when learning to do it in all 12 keys works, because you are learning, if you will, the same patterns of fingering or fret mapping, but each time the note used is different. Using this technique ensures you have to think of the relationship between the notes being played rather than the pattern being played, so you do not get tied into pattern association of just repeating the pattern without knowing the notes.Try it for a week or so and watch that problem you have on the D and G string disappear as you learn to play, name and transpose flowing notes around the fretboard.

For example when you know a song in one key and then you met another band or a singer that do it in a different key, you can transpose the pattern around to suit, but if you also know what the notes are being used then you can work and create within the frame work of keys. That may sound like a trivial thing in your practice, but it will reinforce the habit to become a normal thing you just hear and know in the long run.*

well this made me feel bad lol. Yes I know exactly what you mean. I had this problem when my buddy told me to move a blues pattern up a couple steps and I couldn't find anything to replace the open E for a few minutes. I think learning a tad bit of piano would help me think of my scales and chords and such as intervals instead of patterns but trust me i'm trying to work on all that. I've been playing for just a few months and i wanna fill my head with all the knowledge i can to make myself the best bass player possible. Thank you for the advice

 

[Russell L]

LOL Russell, i wish i could bottle up the feeling you have described and sell it. This is a point in fact, that when you do the right kind of practice and learn the correct sort of ideas, everthing cones together to produce the result you want. No one thing on its own van be said to have been the key, that will differ from person to person ....experience to experience. But as Russell says he cannot be sure if his learning now would have been different if he did not learn in the way he did, the answer is yes it is different. It is different because he can elaborate on what he has learned and build on it. For example i can teach anyone every mode to play on a bass in seconds.

Play a C major scale in seven inversions.

Only works if you know a C major scale but like i said only took seconds rather than hours, because of already gained knowledge.

Heh, well, glad ya liked it, but I actually thought maybe what I said had started to not make any sense about half-way through, lol. I dunno. I started teaching myself basic theory as a kid from wherever I could find it. I had already learned piano by ear since I was pre-school. By the time I started guitar at age 13 I was well on my way. What I had learned previously was applied to guitar, and identifying the notes on the fingerboard came natural to me. Of course, I was paying attention to learning them anyway, just like I had tried to learn everything else I had already learned up til then. See, music has always been a hunger to me, a compulsion. I HAD to play. I couldn't help it, even if it meant sitting out in the cold, freezing garage with my coat and hat on so as not to wake anyone up in the house late in the night. Sick, I was. But, it's the very reason I know what I know, and can do what I do today. I'm thankful.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

well this made me feel bad lol. Yes I know exactly what you mean. I had this problem when my buddy told me to move a blues pattern up a couple steps and I couldn't find anything to replace the open E for a few minutes. I think learning a tad bit of piano would help me think of my scales and chords and such as intervals instead of patterns but trust me i'm trying to work on all that. I've been playing for just a few months and i wanna fill my head with all the knowledge i can to make myself the best bass player possible. Thank you for the advice

Sorry LOL,yes you have the right idea in learn as much as possible, but what is more important isto learn in a specific order. Because musical information is so specific it need to be learned and understood in a specific order or events to get the most out of it. Yes this order can be changed by a good teacher than understands a students needs, but on the whole each new piece of info builds on, or will have a relevance to a previous piece. This is why I always start at the beginning with students that come to me so I order learning as such.

1/ Scales, in learning scales we learn to meld both hands into one.
This also gives us a foundation to related to harmony, melody and rhythm later on. The physical act of playing scales tones the hands and lets the brain work out what is needed to play notes, where notes can be found.
By brain I mean the eyes and ears and the process to construct ideas about what and why things happen when we play scales.
We hear intervals, we will hear chord tones we will hear scale degree, we will hear harmony, melody, and rhythm but not realise we do and not realise we are learning it. All we are aware of is that we are learning scales.
If our scales do not sound right then we can construct the idea that the bass is out of tune, then play a series of scales to work out if this is the case, and also identify which string/s need to be re-tuned.

I always start new students with a C scale, I show the patterns used to show it for melody and it's pattern for harmony. Of course timing and rhythm will apply to both.
From that one C scale I can place the thought of learning every major scale on the fretboard and every note they cover to a student in a minute.....once they have learned the C scale. I do not need to show them or teach them all the individual scales and their positions, I just give them one thought.
Once they have learned that I can build on that by giving them another thought, lower the third and the seventh degree of the C scale and you have a minor scale. C minor to be exact, so move it around and you will have all the minor scales that the root uses.
Once that is learned a new idea can be introduced, just play the first, third and fifth degree of any of these scales and you will have the triad for that scale, add the eighth note to any triad and you will have the apprggio of that scale.
Once learned, add a new idea to the trad info that if we progress again to the next odd number ( 1-3-5 have been used) of seven then we are now into chord tones...........
That would be for me no.2 for is to explore in more detail.

And so it goes, all the info above works from the idea of a C scale which is Major, flatten the 3rd and 7th a semitone and we create a C minor scale also, use the 1-3-5 degree of the Major or the minor to create a C Major triad or a C minor triad, add the 8th degree of either the Major or minor scale to the triad, and we will have the C Major or C minor arpeggio, then add the relevant 7th and we are in to chords, chord tones and harmony.

This info builds on what went before, so everything that happend to that one C scale will happen to all scales, so learn the one idea and re- apply it to other ideas works in music well. As it does when we alter an already known idea, such as melodic and harmonic minor scales based on what we already know about scales. The reason it works is because all new information is relevant, but come into any of the above at the wrong place and you have to backtrack to cover an area missed, because that missed area will be needed later on to explain or help interest and an idea nothing to do with the part you came in at....so again later on we have you go back and cover an idea missed rather than move forward with new ideas.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Heh, well, glad ya liked it, but I actually thought maybe what I said had started to not make any sense about half-way through, lol. I dunno. I started teaching myself basic theory as a kid from wherever I could find it. I had already learned piano by ear since I was pre-school. By the time I started guitar at age 13 I was well on my way. What I had learned previously was applied to guitar, and identifying the notes on the fingerboard came natural to me. Of course, I was paying attention to learning them anyway, just like I had tried to learn everything else I had already learned up til then. See, music has always been a hunger to me, a compulsion. I HAD to play. I couldn't help it, even if it meant sitting out in the cold, freezing garage with my coat and hat on so as not to wake anyone up in the house late in the night. Sick, I was. But, it's the very reason I know what I know, and can do what I do today. I'm thankful.

It's a great story and one a lot of serious players go though because they are always looking for more or looking for answers in order to improve, as you say it's a hunger and no reasons are ever good enough not to pursue it. For others it is a great idea or a way to meet girls, so they never really commit because if they had to give it up it would not really matter to them. We find this attitude in pro sportsman through to teachers, to chefs to actors etc...when you are serious about what you do, then nothing gets in you way no matter how trival it may seem to others, because to you it is just natural.

 

[Russell L]

It's a great story and one a lot of serious players go though because they are always looking for more or looking for answers in order to improve, as you say it's a hunger and no reasons are ever good enough not to pursue it. For others it is a great idea or a way to meet girls, so they never really commit because if they had to give it up it would not really matter to them. We find this attitude in pro sportsman through to teachers, to chefs to actors etc...when you are serious about what you do, then nothing gets in you way no matter how trival it may seem to others, because to you it is just natural.

Exactly. But, now, I'm not trying to say I'm so good, nothing like that. But, I've always had that hunger. I used to sit playing piano until I was in a state of actual meditation. Pure tee zonked on it, lol. I'm talking 8-years-old, and the notes started to have a story to them. Soon as I realized it, I woke up. Oh boy, I was REALLY hooked then, trying to make that happen again.

But, not to be hijacking the thread here, I recommend to the OP to simply study. There are often not any shortcuts to some of this. Learn some theory and apply it. As you do so knowledge of the fretboard will start sinking in due to repitition and familiarity. Just as well, all the other suggestions by everyone will help, too. I know that sometimes we want to speed things up, and sometimes we can, but sometimes we can't. Sometimes things just have to "grow." But, one thing's for sure, the more time you put into it, the faster it will go. It helps to have that hunger, though. It makes whatever you do seem effortless instead of work.

 

[India_Sierra]

Dear bassists,

How long did you all play before you really became comfortable with every note on the fretboard? Were there any particularly helpful exercises that assisted your learning?

Love,
Von Fett

It was probably a couple of years until I was really comfortable with them. Then the real work starts, as you delve into the real theory behind the music and you start to look a the notes in a whole new way!